Thanks. I’ve also read that you need to be within a 20 mile range of a USCG station. Is that 20 miles as the crow flies? If not, where I paddle Lake MI, am out of range.
Your reach/distance is a function of radio transmit power (typically 5 watts), any physical obstructions (big cliffs or hills), and curvature of the earth. The path is between the transmitting antenna and the one receiving.
At the antenna height while sitting in a kayak, you have a lot of height disadvantages to other kayaks or boats. However, if there’s a nearby tall coast guard antenna, that could help the situation. I suggest everyone try hailing the coast guard in a few areas instead of assuming they will be heard when in serious trouble.
Here’s a link to a post I made a while back when I was thinking about PLBs vs VHF. I did some pseudoscientific analysis by aerial photography and Google Maps.
I decided that a PLB was better for me, but everyone needs to look at what’s best for themselves.
Another good one explaining the variables involved and why there’s no “set” distance. Everything about VHF applies when talking about DSC.
Rookie -
l use the hydrater pack that sits on on the back of my PFD, a Kokatat MsFit that remains the best pfd l have found on comfort . I converted to an on body hydrator pack in my biking days. Extra benefit is that the bit of air which inevitably stays in there hardly hurts rolling. I got a good one yesterday on my second roll attempt since last August. Frankly l am just not that good, something was being helpful.
Barge
I may have to do something more creative with my lash tabs. For the time being a basic one fits into long front pocket fine.
May have to choose between it being tethered and in a waterproof case… But for the moment l can just throw it into the day hatch for planned wet work.
Unplanned signals are one of the things l have to check out, and for sure avoid. The technology for these devices is moving fairly quickly, so what thought l knew last season may be changed by Christmas.
Sparky
I will take a look at those references. I agree that finding a fit for where l paddle is paramount. Given my mix that may be a little more interesting than for some.
@Rookie said:
@Sparky961Thanks. I’ve also read that you need to be within a 20 mile range of a USCG station. Is that 20 miles as the crow flies? If not, where I paddle Lake MI, am out of range.
Any vessel with a DSC radio will receive your distress call. Your radio will continue send distress codes until the USCG or the pleasure craft acknowledges your distress code. Then you can tell the pleasure craft operator the nature of your distress on CH16 and he will use his (presumably) 25watt radio and mast antenna to relay to the authorities, or come directly to your aid.
Some of the nicer radios with GPS have an arrow on the screen pointing to your location, or put your location on a CRT if there is a really nice electronics suite on-board. I think that a class A (commercial vessel) radio will auto forward your distress code at high power without any operator intervention.
@Barge said:
Any vessel with a DSC radio will receive your distress call.
If a tree falls in the forest and … naw, I won’t go there.
The key point being that you need regular and consistent marine traffic in your area for this to be a viable option, or be within radio range of a reliable shore station. In the case of @Celia that may be true (as she regularly reports almost being run over by lobster boats). We can assume that most of them, despite almost running her over, would probably come to her aid after doing so. Now in the case of @Rookie I’m not convinced it would be useful. Perhaps, but especially in the winter when there’s almost no other boat traffic and as far as she claims from the CG station, it’s doubtful.
I’m just trying to make it abundantly clear that a VHF radio with or without DSC is not a reliable rescue summoning device for everyone. To claim otherwise is misleading or just plain false. I still carry one, but I don’t pretend that it will bring me help when I need it most.
To be clear, I stand well off of any working boats myself and it has been a long time since a boat threw wake at me. Some of them even wave at me now.
But generally they don’t much like kayakers, and I have seen plenty of paddlers giving them good reason. I have been with highly trained paddlers from other areas who could not read the channels around these smaller harbors .Or heard complaints from yuppies who got offended when they were told they can’t use a working dock to launch their shiny fiberglass boat.
@Sparky961 said:
@Barge said:
Any vessel with a DSC radio will receive your distress call.If a tree falls in the forest and … naw, I won’t go there.
The key point being that you need regular and consistent marine traffic in your area for this to be a viable option, or be within radio range of a reliable shore station. In the case of @Celia that may be true (as she regularly reports almost being run over by lobster boats). We can assume that most of them, despite almost running her over, would probably come to her aid after doing so. Now in the case of @Rookie I’m not convinced it would be useful. Perhaps, but especially in the winter when there’s almost no other boat traffic and as far as she claims from the CG station, it’s doubtful.
I’m just trying to make it abundantly clear that a VHF radio with or without DSC is not a reliable rescue summoning device for everyone. To claim otherwise is misleading or just plain false. I still carry one, but I don’t pretend that it will bring me help when I need it most.
Not to argue a fine point, I said nothing about marine traffic. I said “any vessel with a DSC radio”. If you are on a mountain lake and no one has a VHF radio, it is obvious that no one is going to come to help.
Hikers are more often in solitary areas without cell coverage. Most feel that that a 2-way system, such as Delorme InReach or Spot, are superior to a PLB because urgency and details can be communicated. The appropriate assistance can be rendered.
2-way communication is not possible with a PL
@Barge said …
Why is it that you seem to be against PLBs that operate on the internationally funded and supported 406MHz SARSAT constellation? It appears your first choice is a VHF radio, and your next a private company’s system that requires subscription fees.
@Barge said:
Not to argue a fine point
Actually, that’s exactly what we’re doing. The devil is in the details, as the saying goes.
If you are on a mountain lake and no one has a VHF radio, it is obvious that no one is going to come to help.
I do not give people enough credit to agree that this is obvious to the majority. It is a widely held myth that there is excellent monitoring of radio distress frequencies just about anywhere. With the explosion of cell phone coverage the past few years, people are used to being connected just about anywhere they go. That mindset can extend to other forms of communication, such as VHF.
@Celia
Did you ever make a final choice?
I had a surprise last weekend, paddling northern Lake Michigan in the Sturgeon Bay area. No coverage for either my Android phone or my iPad Mini (cellular). My phone told me I wasn’t connected to the Internet and the iPad showed the endlessly spinning circle of nope. Phone is CDMA, iPad GMS.
That was scary, so I plan to visit West Marine tomorrow. There’s a $40 rebate on that SH HX870.
Hi Rookie.
First, I am not sure that West Marine has a solution for that lack of service for you if you are thinking regular VHF, except if there are channels on which boaters regularly chat, or would pick up a traditional MayDay. Again, I know ocean better than Great Lakes.
Sparky is likely correct about VHF coverage on the Great Lakes.
The question is whether one with the DSC button does any better for you there, which I couldn’t answer even if I had been able to resolve my issue there. I am buying this stuff for the ocean where CG coverage is good so there are questions that are less important to me.
As to getting something, no, because I was able to handle one of the well rated VHFs with DSC button. There are things you only tell when the stuff is physically present. And what the pictures online did not tell me was that the damned thing was too big for me to be able to wear on my PFD. If I was a 6 ft plus guy maybe. But not at my size. So I punted with a regular waterproof VHF that fits in a front pocket of my VHF without getting in my way. Rolled with it too, works fine.
On size, it may be that my only solution for something wearable is a $600 EPIRB. I will be investigating actual response times for them over the winter, will have something in hand for next summer’s salt water paddling.
Good points. I’ll talk with the guys at West Marine. They’re located across from the bay and I’m guessing will know a lot more about this stuff than I do. In the summer and fall there’s boat traffic, especially in the straits which are just above Sturgeon Bay.
Size is a concern, but I do have a tactic pack for the radio and a couple options for hydration, neither of which are on me.
If it isn’t on your body it won’t handle the worst case scenario. That is being separated from your boat.
For a cheaper item it is OK if it doesn’t function ideally. But at the cost for a VHF with DSC or EPIRB, It better do everything you need.
I should have written that more clearly: it’s my hydration that isn’t on me. For longer trips I stash the hydration pack behind my seat; the tube runs under my skirt and connects to my PFD shoulder strap with a strong magnet. The tactic pack is attached to my PFD so if I go overboard, it’s on me and the hydration tube disconnects from the magnet.
This summer I also learned the hard way to carry a spare hydration bite valve.