LIke a seal sliding onto a slick rock
swim across the deck don’t do a pull up.
I Will
That sounds easier than the more traditional self rescue that I have been practicing. I will give it a try. Thanks,
Mark
call the school, and suggest…
– Last Updated: May-02-05 10:18 PM EST –
...that dryland demonstration of assisted and self rescues situation be covered before any student goes on the water. Your post makes it sound like your instructor didn't cover the info ahead of time (apologies to him or her if I'm mis-interpreting your description of the situation).
I've been teaching classes for 12 years, and can't imagine putting someone out there without explaining first what we'll be doing when - not 'if' - someone accidentally dumps. I have never had a summer where at least a few people don't accidentally go over in a class before we've hit the formal 'rescues' portion of the lesson. But because they've already seen a demonstration and explanation of how to do it, the process of getting them back into the boat is generally done on first attempt - which has the desired effect of getting them to think "dang, I guess I CAN manage this thing", and lessening the concern over public embarassment or danger that might keep someone from having the willingness to push themselves into learning some of the more useful braces, etc.
Exactly!
Right. Showing and doing BEFORE creates confidence based on sound foundation. Why not in the future have folks learn these things BEFORE anyone dumps. The rates of paddlers who quit paddling are quite high I hear from other instructors. Could this be due in part early discouragements that can be prevented.
Paddlers Quitting?
Hmm -= I wonder how many 50 plus paddlers (women included) are getting their first lesson from stripling 25 year old guys. Nothing sexist or ageist intended, but the assumed level of physical aggressiveness and baseline flexibility can be real different between these two populations.
Maybe this will get to be like how I look for a new doctor - I want them to be old enough to have a good base of experience ajnd judgement but young enough that they are likely to outlive me. (I hate breaking in a new one with my very messy health record.)
In Any Sport…
– Last Updated: May-03-05 7:42 AM EST –
you'll find a high rate of drop out before folks become reasonably skilled and competent.
We have a funny culture where the media extoll the virtues of being fit (and beautiful). Folks will go out and buy equipment in whatever, do it for awhile and quit. It seems folks are able to expend the $$ but not the long term time and commitment. Makes sense when you consider 50% of Americans are overweight. Think about it... How many folks are REALLY paddling, or pursuing any activity/sport with any serious commitment...
I seriously doubt an instructor (bad or good) makes a heck of a lot difference in the overall scheme of who drops out or stays in the sport. The ones who stay in will find a way to improve, whether with other instructors, with fellow paddlers and/or on their own. We put too much of of what we do and who we are "outside" of ourselves. I maintain it comes from within.
sing
Age Did Give Me Pause
I am 52, 3 this month. When my friend and I first started our new hobby we both questioned our abilitys due to age. She is not far from 50. We both are fairly fit and get some low impact exersize each day. We are both solidly still in the beginners relm.
We both have had all of the issues that folks have discussed on this board in terms of learning the basics. Having rented for a year and now paddling our own boats we have stepped backwards to the basics which were bypassed when we started. We have been working on rescues recently on our own, following some of the write ups on the board and net. We are sloppy, a little slow, but can each manage the basic rescues. We have a formal class lined up the weekend after next which we hope will reinforce what we are doing correctly and move us away from what we might be doing incorrectly.
Our goals include gaining the techniques and experience to enable us to venture out into the larger bays, rivers, and into the ocean. Our short term objective is to continue our practice and learn to roll during May.
So far, age has not been an issue. We seem to be able to manage as well as some of the much younger folks that we have come across. It could be that as we get into longer paddles we will note more of a differance. So far, our longest paddle has been about nine miles.
Mark
Yes, Yes, My Dear…
if you want to learn true effective rescues, you must don that “copper suit.” It’s the “one (true) way” according to DH (and his followers). LMAO!
sing
Don’t Compare Yourselves
with others. Keep going, trying and improving because you want to. Learning from others is good. Comparing with others serves no purpose.
sing
Tip From A Veteran Life Guard
Learn to do the sissor kick well. A good sissor kick will allow you to raise you body out of the water waist high. Another tip is to learn to take a dive. By coming up out of the water under power, even if it’s only one stroke, you’ll “pop-up” instead of having to pull youself up.
Suntan
Those with spirit in between
sing, as usual mostly agree with sentiment comes from within. on that path, the folks I find most interesting to work with and enjoyable are those with the spirit within them but who have found a less than optimal environment and are temporarily discouraged. From within themselves they keep looking and as you point out the student remains ready and the teacher does appear. I especially enjoy that moment, the spritied learner find you or i find them and voila the impossible become accomplished. That is the zone!
Yes, this culture disconnects so many people from their hands and the water. Great insructors don’t create magic in that sense. Someone so disconnected has a long way back.
Still, it is wonderful to see someone who has learned the worm of failure to get that out of their head and progress with better teaching too!
Priorities
Your first priority should be to learn not to flip over. Learn to brace and learn it well. Get good instruction for this and practice a lot. Once you can brace effectively (including a sculling brace) learn to roll. It should be an easy next step at this point. Rescues are not bad things and by all means practice them. But they are very hard to do in the kind of conditions that might tip you over. Try doing a paddle float self rescue in 20 knot winds, cold water, and 1 foot seas. Those are not unusual or particularly difficult conditions but chances are you will not succeed with the rescue.
I Have Read and Heard
2 schools of thought about the best learning sequence.
You point out that learning a good bracing technique is more important or at least should be learned before the roll. You are in the majority, I think.
Others point out that learning to roll first will provide you with significantly more confidence to learn to lean into a brace.
I certainly do not have the experience to make a judgement in this area. So, as I do with many things I read, talk, and kind of cherry pick my way. In this case, I am on my way to being where I want with rescues. I have been practicing a lower brace, have played around with a sculling brace, and understand what a high brace is. I am going to try some rolls this weekend. Ill also practice rescues and bracing some more. I feel like if I can get a roll down I will be able to improve my more aggresive braces. All those once down and Ill try a wet entry and roll.
This may not be the proper sequence, but, so far it seems to be one that is moving me closer to where I want to go.
I have ordered a video, (recommended by a fellow P-Netter), and I am signed up for formal lessons later in the month.
I just checked and the water temps here are now 68 degrees which will make things much more pleasant.
Mark
Remember …
… a forward stroke is also a brace. Simply keeping an active paddle in the water will do a lot to keep you from flipping. The only times I have unintentionally flipped over in my sea kayak I was just sitting still in rollers and let my attention wander. Doing a forward stroke with the blade somewhat horizontal is often enough to keep you upright. I am also a firm believer in matching bracing to rolling when starting out. In the beginning learn sweep braces if you do a sweep roll. Or the standard high brace if you do a C-to-C roll. Or the “EJ” brace if you do an EJ style roll. Learn the other braces later. Doing a brace with the rolling motion you intend to do and doing deeper and deeper braces (tipping further and further) will lead you quite naturally and easily to the roll itself, which is just a deep water brace, which is just another paddle stroke.
How 'Bout This
Just add a tank to the suit and walk along the bottom to shore. That’s what Diver Dan would do
:)Lou
I agree Sing
We live in an society that values immediate gratification. I, on the other hand, being a bizzaro person, lose interest in anything that can be mastered quickly.
Lou
Last Night My Instructor Said
that a good roll will come after a good high brace is learned. She went on to explain that a roll is an extreme version of a high brace. Ergo, I spent the evening perfecting my high brace.
Lou
Roll-brace, brace-roll
– Last Updated: May-03-05 10:51 AM EST –
Dr_Disco's comments are great - all components being iterrelated.
There are definitely two ways to approach this. The advantage you have is you are aware of this now - and can look at it both ways. I can't speak for WW, but in a sea kayak the way you are going should be fine.
I went the way you are and got the roll before I had a clue how to do a real high brace. I had the concept - but was too hesitant to flip to really do it in any meaningful and committed way. Tentative half hearted braces with little lean and body still far from the water are useless. A brace should be able to arrest a capsize - not just correct some wiggles that hip action or a little correction blended into the forward stoke can handle (as noted above - by Dr_Disco - a lot of corrective action can be worked into the forward stroke - and all these things are just strokes).
My hesitancy toward working on braces was not about fear of flipping, it was about laziness/efficiency. Multiple out of boat recoveries are tiring (as you know all too well now)! For the same effort as a real flopped over high brace attempt I could be doing roll attempts (or, since each roll ends with a brace - I was getting bracing practice with each roll attempt anyway).
Soon after learning to roll I still had about zero bracing ability/practice. Low braces I sort of had/have and were mostly a reflexive thing learned while paddling. High braces I had not even tried - so I just flopped all the way over with body hitting water - and popped right back up. Same with side sculling (body immersed). These seemed to come along as a free bonus with the roll. Still need work and practice - but super easy to do now that I can push it and still tuck and roll up if needed.
It would be nice to be able to do the braces well before learning to roll - and seems logical as it is a component of a roll - but in my case that wasn't going to happen. For me rolling was the best way to become more capsize proof, and I have trouble even picturing someone having a really effective brace that can't roll.
The only thing true for everyone is: The better you get at rolling, bracing, and rescues (whatever order learned) the less likely you are to capsize in the first place.
Well,
I kinda took this thread away from the original poster, sorry.
On the other hand, a lot of good information has been posted which should be good for all of us learners.
Thanks to all for all of the tips, explainations, help, suggestions, and encouragement. I almost cant help but get to the next step with all your help.
Mark
Couldn’t Really Trust My Brace
until I learn to roll. I was not into swimming every time I pushed to limit of the brace. After I learned to roll, the brace could really be tested to the extreme. I found the brace to be nothing more than a continuation into the roll.
Different ways of learning.
sing