I’m still a beginner,…
And I find a skeg keeps my yak on track in any condition I’ve been in so far, ocean, bay, chop, wind. It corrects weathercocking, and although my kayak is very rockered and manueverable, keeps it on track. Trimming a skeg occasionally is part of the kayaking experience. And on my kayak the knob is on the side behind the cockpit, not convienent, but it works. Skegs allow you to have your feet firmly on the pegs, a good thing. One thing I’ve heard from paddlers is when their rudder is up, it tends to make their kayak weathercock more.
One other thing I like is the back deck is clean so when I cowboy re-entry I can grab the tip of the stern easily.
They wouldn’t build rudders and skegs if there weren’t 3 types of people.;>)
More Fuel :o)
ALL the purpose built GO FAST yacks have rudders!!
“talking about thinig they know…”
“I wish that people on these boards would stick to talking about things they know something about. That would probably reduce traffic by about 2/3, though, wouldn’t it?”
Indeed it might kill the board due to the lack of traffic! ;o)
On the other hand, if it were not for the rather ignorant post of people who paddle in warm lazy rivers advocating no need for learning rolls, we wouldn’t have the lengthy discussion on the advantage of a roll over other rescue methods. And if it weren’t for the people living in the snowbelt advocating drysuits and Floridians insisting tank-tops, some of us would not even learn about 2-peice dry wears over clamy wetsuits!
We are all born in total ignorance. Through discussion, we learn. So, instead of keep our mouth shut to hide our ignorance, it’s actually better to show our fallability and learn/grow through the discussion. It does require rather thick skin to withstand the embarassment. But that’s still far better than having thick skull by not learning at all.
I wonder…
What sort of footpeg do these “purposely build GO FAST” yaks have?
Efficient paddling pretty much REQUIRES engaging one’s legs positively. How do the racers deal with mushy footpegs?
L
They are fixed, just the toe part moves. Some pivot around a fixed shaft, some pivot around a hinge on the bottom, some in the middle. but all the good ones are fixed. None are mushy. You are thinking of the REC-Boat style sliding ones.
Exactly!
Well, few non-GO-FAST boats with rudder comes with solid footpegs!
To quote: “Get the Hull” (with whatever comes with it because it’s designed to work that way).
But to add to that: Get the right kind of footpegs!
So, take your pick:
- Get a boat designed with rudder, comes with rudder AND solid footpeg. You’re somewhat limited to only a couple manufacturers and only a few of their models.
- Get any boat with rudder and CHANGE out the mushy footpeg yourself. Some are good with their hands, others are not.
- Get a skeg boat and learn boat control without relying on turning/tracking aid. Drop the skeg when condition warrents it.
Footnote: you can still learn boat control on a rudder boat by NOT dropping the rudder.
Just avoid rudder boats with mushy footpegs if you don’t plan to mess with the footpeg. That is, if learning to kayak as a sport is the eventual goal of getting the boat. For many, that’s NOT the goal. Going places and seeing things you can’t on land is the primary goal for many others. For those, rudder works best, mushy footpeg or otherwise.
Flathead Lake
First, the skeg/rudder ? For a beginning paddler I would recomed getting a rudder. As your skills improve you may later get a boat with a skeg 
I live on Flathead and paddle it at least once a week. Choose your days, when the wind is howling do something else. Don’t forget about Swan Lake and Hungry Horse either
I would like to invite you to look into our club; Flathead Paddlers. A nice bunch, we go on weekly paddles and several camping trips throughout the summer. Do a Google search for Flathead Paddlers, or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlatheadPaddlers
If you haven’t got anything in mind yet, be sure to attend the Paddlefest at Bigfork, May 21-22
and paddle several boats in your price range.
Good luck and hope to see you at Flathead Paddlers 
okole
Why I’m Opinionated…
I had two friends buy boats without rudders or skegs. Both had been told or heard that a skilled paddler doesn't need one. Both of these guys (novices) went out on some fairly big bodies of water on windy days and SUFFERED. They both had rec boats... not hulls designed to be neutral.
I know, I know, some of you folks will say, "they should have taken lessons." Get real. A novice buys a boat, then either hates the experience and sells it, or enjoys the experience and continues to develop skills. The skeg/rudder greatly increases the odds that the novice will paddle and become a skilled paddler.
A kid starts riding a trike before he rides a 10 speed.
I also think that if someone got hurt out in windy conditions, there could be liability for the seller who said "You don't need a skeg or a rudder."
A Couple of Times…
I have rounded some islands and the wind, waves, and currents changed very quickly. I went from conditions I was comfortable in to conditions that required a lot of concentration. I didn’t want to take my hand off the paddle. I have also gotten into races with my buddies and didn’t want to lose a stroke to adjust the skeg. I think some kind of foot/toe skeg control is worth looking into.
Comfort Level…
Sorry, guess that what it comes down to. It takes literally 2 seconds max to make an adjust ment to the skeg. Even the tightest interval chops are 3 seconds or more...
Like I said, I don't really care if folks favor skeg, rudder or nothing. But, I just think it's kind of off to say a skeg is not good because you may be in conditons where you can't take your hand off for even a second or two to make the adjustment.
My opinion only but I am the guy out there snapping shots of folks in the break zone with one hand on the camera and another on the paddle.
sing
I will confess
that when pushing my ski upwind on a big day, there are times when I don’t even want to break my paddling rhythm enough to get a clear look at my watch as it crosses in front of my face. That has more to do with not wanting to let the bow get pushed downwind than stability per se, and that’s a more demanding boat than most, but it’s not completely crazy to worry about keeping both hands on the paddle.
That said, I seem to be doing most of my current drooling over skegged touring boats.
Flathead lake does have 3-4ft waves
kwikle, I’ve seen them (many times) just by looking out my window, and I’ve paddled on them (with Shawn B) too. 35-45 mph winds are not uncommon and can come up very quickly. Most of the bigger surf is generated by SSW to SW winds which blow down the “big draw” and then along “big arm” and up the lake toward Bigfork. Winter winds out of the NNW can generate the 3ft variety on ocasion too
romanyguy.
Sounds like
you are a budding lawyer kudzu. Aways someone elses’ fault and sue them because the injured showed poor judgement.
Newbies
I know that not all sellers of kayaks do this, but the ones that also offer the best break on the full outfit (boat, paddle and PFD) around here usually do. What I am talking about is that the package price includes a lesson. In our case this was true even for our first boats, more rec than not.
As a result, we were out leaning the boats (albeit badly) before we ever took them out into water on our own. One of our group also disposed of the question about getting out of the kayak when it flips - he fell right out of it while trying to lean.
Isn’t this kind of fundamental introduction included in a boat purchase for a new paddler elsewhere? If not, that would explain the perceived difficulty of getting a newbie paddler introrduced to turning their boat by leaning. Nothing in that brief introduction would prepare a paddler for really difficult conditions, which they shouldn’t be out in anyway, but it might make the diff between a rudder and skeg less critical for a typical (non-raciong) paddler.
In some cases
recreational boats are evry bit as sea-worthy as boats that you would regard highly. Necky Manitou is a superb rec boat in BIG water. I suspect other brands of rec boats are also quite capable. What do you think is sea-worthy? People need to learn how to paddle first, then choose a boat!! Otherwise you are at the mercy of a lot of mediocre paddling internet experts / others, who don’t know crap about design. Learn to paddle via lessons, friends etc., then choose a starter boat. Kayaking is easy relative to other sports, and in short order a reasonably athletic person can be edging, rolling, sculling, bracing etc. With these skills under belt they can FAR BETTER determine what they need. $ spent on good lessons will be well spent, and likely save you a lot down the line. Rudders and skegs are just tools. Great boats in both camps, as are their great paddlers in both camps. Don’t rely on sites like this. Learn and listen to yourself, and instructors who you see can paddle!!!
Rent/Borrow/Demo
on windy days. It’s in the wind that you know the value of the skeg or rudder.
“recreational boats are every bit as…
sea-worthy…”
I have been in a recreational kayak in serious storm seas. I survived. However, the Cypress I was paddling was not designed for such conditions and handled them far worse than my Elaho, let alone my Aquanaut. My survival of that storm was likely luck as much as skill and the boat.
The beam and loose fit of rec boats makes them more dangerous in challenging conditions than boats intended to handle such.
My input on both subjects in this thread
First of all the rudder/skeg debate. I have used both and my preference is a skeg, but I hardly even use that as I prefer to rely on my paddling skills. My advice to any new paddler is to try a boat you like first of all and worry about the skeg/rudder after that. I would also advise trying boats with both systems and see which you prefer. This is all about persona taste, not right or wrong.
Now for the inland wave issue. I worked at a lake for almost 10 years in the North of England and 3-4 waves were a regular occurance as the lake was in a valley that funneled the wind across the lake. Ask the windsurferes that would come from miles around, especially in winter! Even 8’ waves were not unusual in the winter months and the water would bust over the lake wall at the far end, sometimes swamping the road! It was a little hair raising to say the least when we had to go out on our R.I.B to rescue some twit who had overestimated his abilities. Feeling the R.I.B get airborne was a real adrenalin rush, though at times we thought we may end up flipping.
Actually, another parculiar aspect of this lake was that we could actually have up to four different wind directions at one time, depending on your position on the lake. It has caught out many sailors, especially visiting members to the lakes sailing club.
So although 8’ waves on inland lakes are not the norm, they are possible and 3-4 waves are pretty common on many lakes. It is another example of how people should never underestimate the powers of Mother Nature, she has a habbit of biting you in the butt if you do:)
I’d take a Manitou
outfitted with a backband and thigh hooks into surf and rock gardens over an Elaho any day. That’s my opinion based on paddling both. Sure, some rec boats are toys, but look at some of the things that have been done in various craft.
No, okole, No Lawyer Here…
I'm not saying it's a good thing to sue a boat dealer. I'm just aware of what a good lawyer can convince a jury to do.