Yes
"Bottom Line: Vessels are generally responsible for damage caused by their wakes to person or property either on or beside the water"
Pretty much as I understood it. (My analogy stands.)
rvwen: "Perhaps a closer analogy would be a collision that resulted after a driver lost control of their vehicle at high speed due to wind sheer created by an oncoming truck." --> Good way to get people to take you seriously!
CG Auxilliary course
It looks like "America's Boating Course" is the latest CG Auxilliary course.
I took the course a few years ago. What about you, rvwen?
It is worth while and interesting. I'd recommend it (and the basic nav course too).
Bottom line:
“As to whether or not a particular vessel is responsible for the damage it creates is a question of law and fact that is best left to the Courts.”
::::
This shows that law enforcement agencies consider wake damage to be a civil matter and not a criminal matter.
And, in the case of the Zorba on Lake Erie, should the kayakers take the Zorba’s operator to court they most certainly would be asked the following:
right of way
Very simply, the vessel with the more maneuverability should yeild to the vessel with less. A sailboat under sail is less maneuverable than a Yak or Canoe. You should have yeilded and changed course. Sailboats also Tack or “Come About”, one should know this if they are going out on waters with sailboats, and be aware that they may abruptly turn at any time.
I am not condoning the rude sailboat captain if he truely knew you were there, and if he did, it would have been considerate to signal you to let you know he was coming about across your course.
You definitely need to be aware of your surroundings, especially in situation where your craft is most likely smaller than others in the area.
Turning
Well, I haven’t read all 80+ replies to see if the real question was ever answered but there is an issue here that extends beyond any boating rules or law (although some do address it). Regardless of where you are or what the situation is, you have a continuing obligation not to do anything that would cause harm to or jeopardize the safety of another person. On the water, this includes maintaining control of your boat and being aware of your environment and the boats around you. While I’m not in a position to judge which was truly the burdened boat in this situation, the sailor should have given the kayaker adequate notice of the impending maneuver so the kayaker could keep clear.
Bottom line, big boat, little boat.
Right of way issues are moot.
that’s why I asked the question
about position of the kayak relative to the center of the channel and the sailboat.
Is this ever done?
"While I'm not in a position to judge which was truly the burdened boat in this situation, the sailor should have given the kayaker adequate notice of the impending maneuver so the kayaker could keep clear."
The kayaker was clear (there was no collision).
What kind of notice do sailboats typically make in situations like this?
Court
"This is not a law enforcement issue AND you would lose in a court of law, so all one can do is whine."
It was, at the least, discourteous of the cabin cruiser not to throttle down. While I agree the kayakers are obligated to take care of themselves (I've said that repeatedly), there looks like no reason that the cabin cruiser captain had to be discourteous!
It's quite possible that the CG would have talked to the cabin cruiser captain if the registration numbers were given. I suspect that this isn't that uncommon.
Anyway, no one was suggesting taking this to court! Your "analysis" of the potential liability issues is incorrect: scombrid quite clearly establishes that.
back in the day
When I was studying the rules of the road at the Naval Training Center in Newport, RI they emphasized over, and over, that the best notice one can give to another vessel is a significant course change that takes you away from the point of potential conflict.
Additionally, they defined significant to be a change that can easily be observed by the lookout on the other vessel.
Merely altering course a few degrees to clear the stern, or whatever as is routinely done in sailboat racing, is inadequate as minor course changes are hard to detect.
This gem of knowledge has also served me well when driving an automobile, especially in parking lots.
so
I said:
Bottom Line: Vessels are generally responsible for damage caused by their wakes to person or property either on or beside the water.
That stands whether civil or not. Sure if they took it to court they would be questioned on their actions but you're only assuming facts that would result in their loss in court. One fact of the case is that they were safe until the wake came.
Also note, that criminal charges can still result from this type of activity depending on the circumstances. If the kayaks were not near a channel (either marked or understood by traffic pattern) and a large vessel passed as close as described at speed then that vessel could well be cited for the water equivalent of reckless driving. I've seen captains charged with manslaughter when they swamped a jon boat and the occupants drowned. My opinion at the time was that the jon boat was out of place but the legal position was that the large vessel did nothing to avoid the situation.
We kayaks must do our part to steer clear and be safe but there are times when high speed vessels make that impossible. I've had this type run in in both my kayak and powerboat. I'm nowhere near a channel and some asshat in a 40' boat runs within a few meters of me. Not much of a bother in the kayak (other than wondering whether he's going to run me down or just pass close) but when I'm anchored up running a chum slick and the wake breaks my anchor loose or swings the boat and fouls my lines then I get royally pissed.
"""In addition, federal law requires all vessels to "reduce speed sufficiently to prevent damage when passing vessels or structures in or along all navigable waters of the U.S."""
Word clarification…
Granted I didnt read every post so I apologize if this has already been said here. I saw the use of the word “near-miss” several times. Well contrary to popular belief if you really look at that word it means you hit something. If you nearly-miss then in reality you have barely hit.
Turn it around and a near-hit is a miss because you didnt hit said object according to the words used.
Just food for thought.
Yep, typically at least 30 degrees.
Notice from sailboats
Well, I’ve often heard an initially-burdened sailor tell another he was “out of water” and had to tack to avoid grounding. Not saying this was the case here. I just give it as an example of one boater letting the other boater know of his intentions and therefore avoiding a grounding or a collision.
Nah
“Near” is a measurement of distance. Like “far”.
It’s a “miss” but not a “far” one. Therefore, a “near miss”.
It is a standard rule
It is a standard rule to make clear notice of a change in course.
It would be easy to argue that making such a notice is a good idea. In practice (from experience), it would be a mistake to rely on such notice (from a sailboat, especially).
What is the minimum distance…
… you would consider “courteous” to pass?
Whatever it is, you will normally have the option to maintain it yourself, and be much more successful doing so than expecting others to.
On the same note, it is far wiser to be comfortable paddling in whatever range of wakes that might occur (expected or not) - rather than cursing any beyond your skill set and expecting them not to be made.
and here’s something annoying but funny
i was at the symposium in Port Townsend last weekend, and in the midst of the on water demos and classes and a hundred boats maneuvering around and a lady in a kayak with a sail yelled out ROW as she sailed through our group. it was annoying and funny, and none of us got it, so she yelled out the explanation of sail, funny words like port and starboard, and it was good because she felt special, but we still didn’t get it.
good thread by the by, can’t speak to the situation, but my philosophy is just to get out of the way because i can, and don’t worry about it. only if a powerboat goes right at me making me fear for my life do i get upset and it’s only happened once. ROW minutiae doesn’t concern me when i’m paddling, i try to be invisible to others cause i dig the commando kayaking way of thinking.
Commando kayaking
"i try to be invisible to others cause i dig the commando kayaking way of thinking."
That’s very considerate of you! That way, who ever runs you over won’t be unduly stressed-out because they won’t have noticed!
serious?
If she’s sailing through a tight group of kayaks she’s equally clueless. I’d suggest looking on in horror as she barrels in ones direction, get a deer in the headlight look,then turn upside down.
After she bumps through roll up.