After taking my first dump in a river (ha ha) a couple weeks ago I am seriously wanting to learn how to roll back up.
How feasible would it be for a 5’11" 240lb’er to roll up an 11’ rec kayak? I haven’t even tried. I know there are all kinds of online lessons, real lessons, books, etc, and I am sure I will take advantage of them, but I just wanted to see if there are any other people with my body type and boat that successfully learned.
Thanks!
rec
I’m sure some people can roll rec boats (dubside maybe?). But starting to learn to roll is such a great reason for buying a new boat. Go on, buy another boat for your improving skills and learn in a boat that will make all that effort worthwhile.
I’m sure it’s possible for someone with
the right skills to roll a rec boat. But you are definitely stacking the cards against ever learning if you try to learn with that boat. I would highly recommend taking a real lesson where they provide the boat.
Many Can
We have several P.Net paddlers who have rolled a rec boat and discussed it on this forum. I can roll my sea kayak and tried once to roll a friends rec boat and was unable to do it. I am sure with more practice I could eventually learn to. I would think it would be easier to learn using a sea kayak then progressing, but that is just a guess.
Happy Paddling,
Mark
Someone who has good handwriting
can write with a naked pencil lead. Not recommended for beginners.
While many experts can roll up a rec kayak, trying to learn to roll with a rec boat is not efficient, will be extremely frustrating, might well cause injury or bad habits, and I doubt that 1/2 of 1% of those who roll would choose that as the best path.
IN this case, the masses might be right.
To learn
It’s much less you than how the boat is configured. Learn in another boat, either a WW boat or a narrower sea kayak that is properly outfitted with thigh braces and will tend to make it easier to learn, and use that information to decide if/what boat you want to make your next one. If you enjoy learning to roll, you will likely be interested in trying other skills that your present boat won’t support well. Worst that happens is that you eventually have a safe guest boat for easy flat water paddles on a hot day.
thanks…
yeah, my boat is about as wide as they come and I figured it would be a very frustating experience.
Hmm… maybe a WW boat is in my future…
I’m curious about how you went over.
River turbulence? I’m guessing that from your thinking of maybe a WW boat in the future. Just interested if you don’t mind sharing.
Paul S.
That’s what I learned on…
I’m 5’10", 185lbs. and learned on an 11.5’ Dagger Blackwater…It made rolling anything else a breeze.
Joe
Which boat
If you know of anyone who has an older style river runner that is outfitted so that you can comfortably fit into it, that’d be a good boat to learn in. You may have some of that around you if you have a decent array of rivers around you. Some of the newer WW play type boats with planing hulls are more like rolling a square box than a boat, are actually a good bit harder than the newer ones. And I found that the Jackson Hero required a little more attention than boats like the older Pirouette.
Rec boat rolling
I suppose if you can brace your knees under the deck and have a sprayskirt on that won’t pop off, then the boat can be rolled. I’m also 5’11", but 190lbs. I regularly roll a Prijon Capri Tour (12’ long, 24" wide). My Necky Manitou Sport (10’11" long, 26" wide) takes a little more effort. It goes over with a “plop!” A C to C with a good outer knee lift gets it right up quite easily.
Define rec boat…
…A Loon 138, for instance would be EXTREMELY
difficult for an experienced person to roll:
shape, lack of thigh braces or straps, loose
fitting cockpit…
Which roll
Part of the problem is that some of the harder boats to roll don’t come up too easily with anything other than a CtoC because of outfitting and rear deck height. And that’d be OK except that the CtoC is about the hardest first roll to learn. It was my first one, and after I learned some others I realized how much more difficult I had made it for myself by not starting out with an easier roll and an easier rolling boat. It took me way longer than most would have stayed at it.
So learn with a boat that’ll support a sweep or a back deck extended paddle roll for the first one, means a low rear deck and decent thigh braces, then think about doing it the hard way.
Used WW Boats Can Be Had
for small dollars. Yes. Do yourself a favor and learn with something easier. Set yourself more favorably towards success than failure.
Actually, depending where you are, a good approach may be to sign up for rolling lessons where they supply you with the boat, usually and older whitewater design.
sing
Wrong roll
A C2C is the least effective of the triad of C2C, sweep, and EJ. The EJ roll is a C2C with a layback. The layback provides an advantage over the pure C2C. The sweep roll is almost certainly the most effective of the three even without a layback and with a layback is by far the most effective. I know a number of people who had a perfectly decent C2C who switched to other rolls because they were more reliable with particular boats. I have a friend who is an instructor trainer for ACA and can execute a wide variety of rolls with near perfect form and strength. He tried my Dragorossi Fish in the pool and could only roll it with a sweep roll. I know this is a continuing debate but my experience is that problematic boats are rarely responsive to a C2C roll. YMMV.
Rolled a rec boat
I rolled a rec boat, and rec-ed my kness. It was a perception Acadia (no skirt) and it took some serious body english. I was in a heated pool so the deck was stacked in my favor.
I would not recomend this.
john
rear deck height does not interfere
with a sweep roll. Forced to role a 28 inch wide boat i’d go for a sculling roll
Well yeah
Per se. It’s a matter of likely mistakes and the fault-tolerance of the boat. I found that I was heading way back back often when I first was learning to roll - since I was still learning of course I wasn’t doing it right. Had I a boat with a lower rear deck, my success would have been less impacted by coming so far back that I ran out of room to move.
My impression is that this is a pretty common mistake - at first the paddler doesn’t have good lower body rotation and timing, so the body is moving ahead of he boat rather than the other way around. But that may be more just me than I realize. It’s still the most common foundation thing I have to go back and pattern again when I find my recoveries going south.
Dubside
definately can, saw him do amazing things in a rec. boat at the WCSKS last year. But, he is Dubside 
Eddyline Falcon -Review & More
Dr.Disco-
See you on the P.net boards, respect your views & opinions.
This is OT from the response topic, but I wanted you further extrapolation amd update on your opinion offered in the reviews section about the Eddyline Falcon.
There’s one for sale down here for $1400; here’s the P.Net ad:
(FL) Eddyline Falcon 18 Kevlar. Sunnto deck mounted compass, new back band & seat pan, Nitelite deck lines. good condition, new $3000+ used $1399! Call Chuck 941-807-0812
Seems like an exceptional value in Kevlar… But…
I’m 6-0, 204, 30" inseam, and I now mostly paddle an Eclipse, an expedition boat of more than commodious design, as I’m sure you’re well aware. It’ll be fine for Florida Bay camping this winter with Grayhawk and the gang, but -also like Grayhawk, who sold his Caribou and kept his Pygmy Tern for camping, and just recently replaced the 'Bou with a light boat for day trips -I’m looking for a day tripper and might consider the Falcon.
It looks like a nice, fast boat -good. But Joel Beckwith, another fine paddler (and nice guy) whose input I respect had another one -something like a CD Stratus or Extreme or Andromeda (3 sorta like boats I recall off the top of my head, not sure) -who said it (whatever it was) was a great open water/deepwater boat, but was a poor paddler on the likes of the flats and shallows of Florida & Biscayne Bays -precisely where we most frequently paddle.
I wonder if that’s the case with the Falcon. Also, I don’t (yet -despite Brazilbrasil’s encouragement & instruction, once) roll, wonder about it in a boat that might be squirrely as the Falcon might be.
Also do NOT want a boat needing significant wind and/or current-cocking adjustments -windcocking’s a bane on the Eclipse (and the Scupper Pro) and I’d be happy not to have to work at constant course corections on long paddles.
So. what would you say about this boat and its value, in addition to the handling issues?
Thanks for any input/advice.
-ScupperFrank in Miami