-- Last Updated: Sep-05-10 8:40 AM EST --

i practice rolling a lot these days. At 50 although in remarkably good shape despite being a recovered roscknroll drummer /alcoholic. im a big fan of warren williamsons "metod" . I find it quite a bit more physically demanding to do long rollingsessions in a fullblood seakayak. I used to be quite good in my ex quaanaaq512 whitch i sold, due to my dislike of its behavior in bigger waves and strong wind.But living by a lake north of oslo i was somewhat stupid in selling it. i desperately wanted a new smaller seakayak. i wasnt sure about the pintail at the time , and a used romany was my desired object. however i ended up with the tempest 165 plastic instead. I now feel an urgent need for a smaller kayak, but since i dont drive, i need a kayak that can be stored at "my lake" at least for a week at the time ..Perhaps my worries will end: the PINTAIL with its somewhat extreme Rockerbanana shape and low deck ,might be a supereasy roller..
Not that the tempest or zephyr are unsuited for rolling.They are both MADE for rolling of course, but its hard work hanging upside down , flipping the kayak here and there , whileholding your breath for long intense sessions..hehe I have almost bought a skeleton/frame eastgreenlander...its propably a wonderful rolling boat, but it needs a bit care.
By hte way..the old 1969 Lindisfarne kayak i was given some time ago, is a fantastic roller!despite its high hull and high backdeck. its 52 wide, biut th "valleylike" shape makes it almost as easy to roll as a greenlander..holding a paddle float i could practically spin it around , with a "continous
backdeck rodeo roll" amazing..
If the Pintail has somewhat the same caracteistics ill be a very happyman, at least for some time...thanks.
And i forgot..i dont like the feel of tahe greenlands..just a matter of taste.

You are probably better off building a skin on frame kayak if you wan a dedicated rolling machine.

In most boats I regularly paddle I can no longer tell the difference in how easy or hard they roll. They all roll well.

Usually I can tell if I’m “on” (rolling well) or not by hand rolls. I paddle an Avocet quite a lot and whem I’m tired or “off” I miss hand rolls. The first time I hand rolled a Tempest 165 was in a 45 degree F pool. Chilly. I believe it is easier to roll than the Avocet, but I really never get to paddle that boat.

An alternative to a SOF for rolling would be a whitewater boat. I have a Jackson Fun and a Dagger RPM. Both are easy to hand roll and I can consistently hand roll them. The Dagger is probably the easier of the two. The Dagger is old school witha displacement hull, so it is much like a sea kayak, only shorter.

Another production boat that I think rolls really well is a Dagger Alchemy, but if I were you I would get an old whitewater boat to leave at the lake for roll practice.



Thanks! Im quite obcessed with “skeleton” ash /lark?frame made by masterbuilder Anders Thygesen…its propably a real beautie and i miss the greenland feel.

especcially here on the lake where i chase galeforce winds and steep rolling 3 footers if im lucky.hehe

so i really WANT to find a solution to the skin on frame thing…but the pinny might be nice too on the lake…to practice tecnique…

How 'bout an Anas Acuta? I tried one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast for a low volume boat and is surprisingly quick for a boat with so much rocker. Now I understand why it’s so well regarded.

Bill H.

Im confused<br />You say you dont like the Tahe Greenlander but miss the feel of a Greenland boat. If your technique is good you can roll anything. Asking this on you are going to get a lot of different opinions. Not sure how twenty five or so different opinions will help you make up your mind. Go out and demo five boats that YOU think you may like and go from there. For what it`s worth I paddle a Romany and also have a Greenlander Pro ( which practically rolls itself )

I think you’ll find that your new Pintail will roll like the proverbial dream.

And sjkayaker is right: if you’ve got a good, solid roll, you can roll a Palmico 14:). However, some boats are just more fun than others.

i know that, hehe. but its not the same as a pamlico being a great boat for a 50 year old luntic, to learn the backdeck rodeo roll, the kind of stuff warren is doing. As i said i paddled a qaanaaq512 for a year and it was extremely easy to do rolling tricks in. Bill mentioned Anas A and the thought has occurred here to.

i might end up with that one. its got rocker and hard chines…rough water rolling practice. Thanks guys…

a friend who runs a kayakshop have a squirtkayak i can have for a nice price! that should be a nice fitnessmachine!

You do realize that a squirt boat “kayak” is designed to sink? It also requires a much more careful fit than any other type of boat with a very close inseam requirement as well as a weight requirement.

Do a web search for squirt boats before you decide. This is a very specialized boat.

Bill H.


– Last Updated: Sep-09-10 9:16 AM EST –

My friend is an exellent kayaker. He tought the kayak could be very nice for flatwater play/exercises..just for fun..tomorrow i get the pintail!! that might help.

so WHAT don’t you like about the tahe

Second the WW boat suggestion

– Last Updated: Sep-09-10 5:19 PM EST –

If all that's wanted is something for roll practice, a WW boat will do, and it's small/light enough that storage and transportation are not issues. As long as you're not trying to paddle flat water for distance, why not. They're less expensive than sea kayaks, too.

I do about half my roll practice in the sea kayak and half in the WW kayak. While they feel a bit different when capsizing and coming back up, the technique is the same. In my case, both boats are also equally easy to roll; of course, this will vary depending on your specific boat choices.

Same for balance brace and sculling. It's surprising how little difference there is, given the very big differences in dimensions and shapes (Explorer LV vs Jackson Side Kick). I think it's helpful to roll different boats anyway (assuming they fit), so you don't psych yourself out that "this isn't what I usually use."

One other nice thing about practicing rolls in a WW boat is that, before capsizing, it's easy to make it spin around so that you set up and roll in a swirly situation. More good psych prep.

I do wonder why you find rolling a "full size" sea kayak physically demanding enough that you're trying to get a smaller sea kayak. If I do 50 rolls in my sea kayak, it's not more tiring than doing 50 rolls in my WW kayak that weighs less than half as much. Is there something in your technique (i.e., muscling up on the blade) that is causing you to notice the sea kayak's weight? Have you tried doing roll practice first, before paddling? I switch orders of practice and find that often it's best to do the thing you need to focus on first. OTOH, sometimes it's better to warm up with something else first. Try it both ways and see what works for you.

If you're rolling many times, maybe you need to cut down the number of rolls until you get more used to doing it. Like not paddling longer distances till you build up to it.

BTW, I found that my comfortable breathholding time has quietly and gradually increased from rolling practice--a really nice side effect.

i guess im used to the rocker and manuvrability of the qaanaaq512. i will get a east greenland skin on frame soon, bulit by master builder anders thygezen…i cant really tell. propably just a matter of taste…ill admit i only paddled it for about 30 minuits. its subjective. i know lots of great padlers that love them…

I’m sure you’ll enjoy paddling
the Pintail in rough conditions but I wouldn’t get your hopes up too much about it being a super rolling kayak. It does roll pretty easily but not as easy as a lightweight SOF. Rolling the Pintail does take more effort and is not my choice for a long rolling session. Get it out in some rough conditions and you’ll see it shine.

Consider an Impex O/I:
I bought a used one awhile back, and find it to be great, if you don’t want a skin boat with all of it’s limitations. It’s a delight to roll, certainly up to all of the Greenland progressions, and even a reasonably comfortable, useful kayak. I wouldn’t recommend it as an, “only kayak,” but it makes a great second or third. And I’m a lot older than you! (But not as old as JackL!)

i think i get my pintail this evening…

Drummer Riddles
Q: How do you know the stage isn’t level?

A: The drummer only drools on one side.

Q: What’s the difference between a drummer and a large pizza?

A: The pizza can feed a family of four.

Q: What’s the difference between a treasury bill and an aging drummer?

A: The T-bill eventually matures and makes money.

These are equally effective if you substitute “banjo player” or “folk musician” :wink:


– Last Updated: Sep-11-10 3:48 AM EST –

roll to the left!roll to the right-rttl-rttl.rollttr-rttl-rttr-rttr.-breathe....hehe. etc etc..the add some syncopation..
guess you could substitute kayaker as well?