rolling results

I have a heated pool at my condo. Took the Q700X for a practice session with wife as photographer. Did about 15 rolls on each side, but of the 30 I missed about 5 on the first attempt, but always succeeded on the second. Studying the photos I saw that I was bringing my body and head up before the boat.

On my next session it was the Ikkuma and I concentrated on leaving the body low. I nailed about 20 rolls on each side without failure.

Today I took the 700 for more practice. To my horror I completely failed on 2 or 3 repeated attempt, exited about 6 times, started over but never rolled at all! What is going on? I have been rolling successfully for 20 years!

thinking too much now?
Was the odd part that you fail many later or that you failed some of the first attempt rolls in the first session? If the latter, then sometimes when you’re newly trying to focus on some key point you let other parts of your roll fall apart that were okay before.

btw, when you see your head come up too soon it isn’t always the real problem but sometimes a symptom after the problem. For example, one common problem is to let your non-sweep hand go to high out of the water (i.e. failed to keep your elbow close to your body) and as a result your blade dives. When you’re blade dives you then get desperate and lift your head. So while keeping the head down may have saved the bad roll it may not have been the main, first cause.

Good luck.

For Me…

– Last Updated: Oct-30-10 6:56 AM EST –

there are really only two kinds of rolls; quick rolls and slow rolls. The key to quick rolls is getting the head high... way up near the surface... then lots of knee/thigh lift to right the boat.

My key for slow, laid back rolls is sweeping the paddle back, then pushing the paddle down and FORWARD for incredible lift. The knee/thigh still help right the boat but the motion is slow and easy.

(I don't wanna start no fistfights but I think the Greenland paddle is a much better tool for rolling than a Euro)

I don`t think you will
get any arguments that the GP is much easier rolling than a Euro. No need to worry about climbing angle.

Different boats roll differently …
Certain boats just want you to roll them, where others you have to hit the “sweet spot” or they are more difficult. I can roll all my sea kayaks but in one of them it requires more attention and it nowhere as easy as in the other. When I transition from sea to WW boat after having not paddled the WW for a while, my off-side roll often fails until I practice a bit more too.

The QCC should roll OK but it is not the easiest to roll IMO. especially if you do not have the thigh braces installed -:wink:

Here is what I consider “easy to roll” vs. “harder to roll” boats: the former allow me at my current level of experience to perform an effortless roll as fast or as slow as I want. The latter require a more energetic roll and do not allow me an “infinitely slow” layback roll nearly as effortlessly. The QCC I think falls in the latter and the Seda in the former category (guessing there).

Just ideas
Some flyers here, but what the heck.

I looked at your list of prior boats, and see at least one with a not-low rear coaming (the Solstice). I would otherwise ask if you were dealing with a higher rear deck in the QCC than you are accustomed to and so need to come up from less of a layback. Or am I remembering the boat wrong?

Agree with a post above - if your head is coming up too early and you have already had a roll, it means that the roll is not as far “up” in the first couple of seconds as your body memory expects. I have one boat that is a little more fussy, and run into exactly that on a bad day. The boat has a higher front deck than my other, and I either have to kick it harder or extend further (which essentially chews up time) to not be trying to get my torso up when the boat isn’t yet. Is the QCC more high and square in some fashion to the water sideways than your other boats have been up by your thighs?

Finally, kinda like the above idea but not exactly, does this boat have to be further up than the others you have had to be past its secondary stability point? Said differently, does this boat have to be higher up in the revolution before it’ll continue on its own inertia to up? Or do you have to lift it further or longer than you are used to? That could do a job on your timing.

For Me… Again

– Last Updated: Oct-30-10 12:44 PM EST –

if you get your head way up high as you sweep your paddle then very quickly right your boat with your thigh, you don't have to keep your head or torso down. I swear you can come up bolt upright every time. It ain't a 'hip snap'. It's a thigh snap.

Get yourself a GP. Practice sweeping it back then pushing it forward and down. It's like pushing yourself up off the floor. The lift you get is unbelievable. No thigh snap required.

Slow down, relax
and get calmly arrogant about it. If you’re doing a layback (Sweep) roll, visualize that you have long hair, and sweep the hair across the surface of the water as you execute the roll. That’ll keep your head down. As for arrogance, believe you will succeed every time. Doubt is your enemy.

Another good trick is to roll with your eyes closed, and concentrate on balance and the feel of the roll. Your waist should be the center of your technique - legs and hips twisting the boat up, and your upper torso and arms sweeping across the surface. Practice isolating those two motions, and you will be amazed how easy rolling can be. Hold on to a dock or friend’s boat, and practice just the lower body movement until it feels natural, easy, and very powerful. Then add the upper body sweep to it when rolling. GP’ers can do this from a static brace position (And EP’ers can too if they learn a static brace, it’s just a little harder due to less bouyancy of the paddle sometimes).

Now if you’re doing a c-to-c roll, SLOW DOWN. You can do this roll explosively, but you don’t need to, and it sets you up for failure with the slightest mistake in technique. Set up, grab the surface with your paddle, and roll the boat up very deliberately. Keep your torso extended at the surface until the boat rotation brings you up. Head comes up last.

Most importantly, make sure you have good contact with the deck or thigh braces. That is critical, especially when you’re learning.

Rolling has a lot to do with your
Center of gravity. Getting your head up toward the surface of the water when upside down is easier in a lower volume kayak. Keeping your head down near the water surface when rolling up is easier in a lower volume kayak. Technique and flexibility will exaggerate the differences even more. Learning rolling technique in a kayak that rolls easier will help you to eventually roll more difficult rolling kayaks in the future. You’ll know your technique is getting better when you can roll higher volume kayaks easier.

new rolling results
Today I took both the Q700 and the Ikkuma, along with both my paddles, a bent shaft AT and bent shaft Werner Kalliste, down to the pool. Since I had failed so miserably yesterday in the Q700, I started with the Ikkuma and did 3 or 4 very good rolls on each side, with both paddles. No failure or difficulty.

Switching to the Q700, I failed on each of 3 attempts and had to wet exit. Why I wondered.

Got back in the Ikkuma and did a few more no problem rolls. Then I did a slow extended paddle roll, concentrating in getting the paddle away from the boat and along the surface before putting pressure with my knee.

Got back in the Q700 and did a successful extended paddle roll on each side. Then, concentrating on getting the paddle started out away from the boat, I did half a dozen easy rolls on each side. Problem solved! At least for now.

What is scary is that I could go for years without ever failing to roll, then suddenly lose it. Why I lost it on the Q700 and not the Ikkuma is beyond me.

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments.

I thought I had a very dependable roll
Before I started using a Greenland paddle. To perform the C-C roll with the Greenland was impossible at first. I had to really concentrate and perfect every part of the roll to perform the C-C. Each different roll I learned with the Greenland paddle seemed to enhance the others. Now I feel I have a much more dependable roll. My point is that there is much technique to be anilized and developed no matter how good I think my roll is.