wow that’s a great idea!
Of course i need to get confident in my sweep roll first. I can setup and hit my extended paddle most of the time and although I think I can hit the sweep fairly well, the confidence isn’t there. With a sweep roll I have trouble with my paddle orientation without the help of goggles to double check my blade on the water. I guess with practice it will come. I defintely have to remember to practice rolling from strange setup positions as one of the tricky parts for me is manuevering the paddle through the water. How do you guys do this quickly?
six knot current? are you paddling
the bay of fundy?or niagra falls? thats pretty radical current,over ten miles an hr .
instead of the QCC700 you should
have bought one of those swan pedal boats from the amusement park
Must Be Peter’s "Play Spot…"
at Woods Hole.
As far as rolling is concerned, there is no difference rolling in deep even current, no matter how fast, from rolling in flat water. Give yourself a couple of seconds for your body and boat to catch up with the current speed and the roll is essentially the same.
sing
Suggestion
Have someone standing by to give you a bow rescue. Then tip over and simply move your paddle around in the water. Scull it back and forth, tilt it and move it toward the surface, and change angles as you sweep it back and forth. Spend 10 seconds or more if you can. Then set up and roll. As you sweep feel what the paddle is doing and make corrections if you need to. By the way, you don’t need to get the paddle out of the water for a sweep roll. You only have to move it through the water so that you generate supporting force. Enjoy!
thanks for the tips
i think in my head i have a need to have my paddle on top of the water to execute a roll. it may be from the videos i have watched or the fact that my instructors always had their hands wiggling above the water while flipped to demonstrate blade angle and looseness of grip. i have a tendancy to do the same now (in the air, wiggle paddle, etc.) A submerged sweep roll would be really useful now that i’m doing whitewiter. With my current setup technique, there is no way i can setup and roll quick enough while my head is being dragged across rocks and i’m bouncing around the river. Your suggestion of going under the water and playing with the paddle and it’s movement is a great idea. I’m still a wimp and pretty much scared of water so it takes all my mental energy to calm down enough to setup and roll up calmly and cleanly. Man, the day that I hit a whitewater roll in a combat situation (for me probably class II or III) will be a happy day!
6 knots over ten mph?
– Last Updated: Jul-21-04 9:27 PM EST –
Stop bogarting and pass that thing over here. Please!!! (not really, I don't do that any more)
Edit: 6 knots X 8/7 = 6.8 statute miles. What's up with the over 10?
Playspot in woods hole. The channel areas regularly hit four knots; the special spot hits about 6 at peak. I could not paddle through it at max effort. One of my fitter partners barely could but only by using the eddies in a way that awed me.
For further reference look at eldridge tide an pilot book 2004. pages 36 and 37 which sets the average max flood current velocity at 4.5 knots with occasional currents exceeding 7. This is in the main channel, as the play spot is not covered. I look for over-average tides and way-over-average sea kayakers to go there with. Preferably better than me. (dubious roll in surf; been working OK in current lately). The play spot has rocks on either side but if you blow your roll you just go into a bay. There you can swim the boat to shore, work on a paddle float rescue, or take an assisted rescue or do a reenter and roll. How would I know this? ;-)
Nice tthread with some good ideas!
Here are my current thoughts & ideas…
I am new to this and don’t have a roll. I just took my first pool session this past spring. In addition to needing to be in clean and warm water so that I can relax and get numerous attempts in, I have also discovered, at least at this point, I am wise to include goggles, perhaps a nose clip and eap plugs, because my ears/sinuses really bug me for about 24-48 hours after practicing. Knowing this, makes practice less palatable! I think I prefer a pool for actual roll practice, but I don’t have easy access to one without signing up for a class. I liked using a river boat, and will probably take pool classes with river boats until I get a reliable roll.
I do have a nearby lake as well that is relatively warm. I have practiced exits, reentries and recently did learn how to do a paddle float assisted reentry there. I feel the need to have a trusted paddler nearby when practicing at this point, for both roll practices and assisted paddle float reentries, as I am upside down in the water. I don’t mind practicing wet exits and reentries, and cowboy scrambles solo, and sort of like playing around with my boat in this regard, when in warm, flat water.
We had a spring campout and potluck to make it more inviting for people to practice this stuff, and we are hoping to make it an annual or semi-annual event. I hope we get some experienced rollers participating this year, so that roll practice in lake water, in my touring boat, is something I get to try.
I am also working on my forward stroke and sculling. I hope to practice this at every paddle, and in the harbor throughout the winter this upcoming year, when weather prohibits paddling out of the harbor solo. The guy I took my roll class from told me that sculling well, is very helpful with rolling, so I hope to get better at it! I am finding just learning to feel comfortable upsdide down, and learning how to orient myself in this environment is a first step for me, and that I will probably do best, at least for a little while, breaking it down into sequential steps, sort of like in the “kayak roll” video. I am not quite ready to try and put it into one fluid motion yet, when practicing these things.
Good ideas about having someone at the bow, and I will try that at my next lake practice.
pool + instructions
Sinus discomfort: Goggle is good, especially if you wear contact lens like me. Nose clip a MUST! I don’t know how anyone can pratice lots of rolls WITHOUT nose clip. I got one right after my first roll class! Others had suggested using diving mask, which covers both eyes and nose. I think that’s a pretty good idea also. I use a swim cap to keep water out of my ears.
For the few rolls per outing kind of pratice, I don’t use any aid so it’s close to real environment when I might actually NEED the roll. But for intense roll practice session, I wear all those stuff so I don’t suffer the rest of the week.
Pool access: I know you live a little further away. But Steve at Riptides and Rapids teaches rolling in the pool in Muffet Field on most Thursday evening. The pool is also available for those of us who can already do it on our own to pratice in. The nice thing about it is there’ll always be others around to “spot” you. Some of them are pretty experience people who often offer helpful pointers as well.
I think there used to be an outfitter down at Santa Cruz that has similar arragement to make a pool available for both their roll class and others to pratice in. Though I forgot the name, nor do I know they still have the same arrangement. You may want to call around to check it out…
Clear is preferable even w/closed eyes
I close my eyes when I roll. The clear or translucent water is just better for checking out whether the area is deep enough, and to see any large rocks or other obstacles below.
You can practice rolling without setting up. It takes a few more seconds to come up than with a pre-dunk setup. You can also practice rolling from a moving capsize. I have practiced it from moving start without setup, and it’s definitely harder than with a static roll and planned setup.
I still need to do three or more rolls on one breath instead of gulping in another one before going down again. Have rolled up on a second attempt after the first one failed but more practice with multiple rolls on one breath will build more confidence.
sing,gotcha,that makes sense.
If your sinuses bother you you would be
better off with a mask instead of goggles and a clip. The mask really works well. Get a low volume mask if you can. I use goggles or a mask to prevent eye infection. I had some eye surgery 10 years ago and seem prone to conjuntivitis…
If you don’t…
…want to learn, and don’t take the time on the water, why do you always seem to find time to chime in on the rolling threads?
Methinks you do want to, eventually (no hurry), or you’d be to happy over in “swan boat” land to chime in.
You’re right that in our waters you don’t NEED to (I must admit I mostly “just paddle” too, bit this thread’s not about that - it’s for those who want to and/or already do), but don’t you also agree that paddle float recoveries are incredibly slow and inefficient? That a quick roll to cool off would be nice in 105 heat index?
It’s not just about rough water skills, or cold water skills, or learning new tricks to show off.
To me the biggest plus will be the added knowledge of how my boat behaves and how much more performance I can get when I can push it without a concern about a long ordeal to recover if I go over.
The way it was put to me, and what I find most apealing, is: Once you have a reliable roll, you’ll almost never “need” it. Good rollers don’t have tend to have many accidental/unintended capsizes even in conditions (WW/Surf being part of the action, not acccidental!).
Hey, Steve actually has my avocet
in his shop! He is adjusting the seat and taking off my foot pegs and putting in some foam in between where the bulkhead and pegs were.
There are some pool sessions available locally, but it has been tricky as I work some weekends and nights as nurse-midwife, so it just hasn’t worked with my schedule. I think I will take another session with Dave Johnston as his class is at the university pool, and they don’t use chlorine (oxygenation instead) However, when I get ready to practice I hope to take advantage of Steve’s pool sessions, even though it’s a drive because Thursdays work with my schedule. I joined WSK this last year. I will come prepared with goggles:)
abc are you a local? A WSK member? The Lake I was referring to is Del Valle.
One more thing to try-----
Get a copy of Kent Ford’s Video on rolling. It is fantastic. The method he teaches works easily in a touring boat.
I had taken three different rolling classes in a pool by two different instructors and still couldn’t roll.
Then Wayne Horodowich decided to get me rolling at a practice session our club was holding. I quickly learned to roll using the method from the video.
Unfortunately, I was unable to paddle for the next three weeks and quickly forgot everything Wayne taught me. Then I bought the video from him and after watching it 5 or 6 times, I went and practiced and my first attempts were 6 sucessful rolls for 6 trys.
My record is not that good at this point, but I still make about 75% of them on the first attempt now.
Kent Ford’s video works!
because…
Q700 looks better.
agreed on all points
I am in this thread to make a minor point: that for me and, perhaps others, playing with our kayaks in this manner can be fun, or not. But it is not a major safety issue. It is just one more aspect of the playful nature of this activity.
Approaching a roll may work better if this is always kept in the fore. You have mentioned the main reason I have a desire to learn a roll…to cool off in the water when it’s 105. Now if I could just find a pair of water proof ear buds that also served as ear plugs…
It’s a great video!
I have the dvd version and have learned a lot watching it. It’s the reason I think trying to learn to roll with a sequential step approach will work for me, rather than just trying to nail it in one fluid motion. The steps he takes make “body sense” to me.
Just cut the…
… techno-umbilical cord and friggin’ paddle! L
Do you really need some electronic device (music, cell phone, TV, whatever) 24/7?
Sure, music is entertaining, relaxing, sets a paddling pace, etc., but a few years ago I questioned my need to be to be entertained or engaged with something ALL the time. Going without has proven to be even more relaxing.
Sometimes, when paddling, even my incessant internal chatter shuts off. Ahhh!!!
But that’s another thread - and one that’s been posted several times…
“1st Roll” Video
is another good one. Takes you one step at a time - working backwards - then brings it all together. GP oriented, but not GP specific.