I guess I must have done something pretty bad to empty my karma account, but it certainly ran empty today.
I got stuck on a spike like branch off a sunken log. I was stuck in such a way that the canoe actually spun around in a 360 like one of those spinning plates on a rod.
It left a dent about the size of my index fingernail that looks a lot like what a countersinking drill bit makes. I would call it a hole except it did not go all the way through. It is coned shaped down to about the size of a pencil lead in the center and is about 1/4 inch deep over-all. There is no sign of the damage from the inside of the canoe.
I will review all the posts on Royalex repair, but I have a specical problem. I am supposed to leave for a 2 week canoe trip Tue. The ABS layer is definitely exposed (and I think damaged). As a minimum I know I need to paint over it to get UV protection for the ABS layer.
The questions:
1. Does this sound like damage that needs a complete repair before I go on my trip?
2. If I go ahead and just paint over it with the Krylon Fusion, will that interfere with a later repair.
3. Is there a quick, temporary repair with materials I might find locally at West Marine that would be good enough for the trip.
Edit:
After reviewing the archives it seems that JB weld or some epoxy putty may be the best fix for my dent/hole.
Is there some particular JB Weld product to ask for or is that an individual product? If selecting an epoxy putty is there a type to use or a type to avoid?
Thanks for you help
Mark
I’d look for JB WEld, …
...but I'm sure other products will do the trick. Somehow I have avoided doing any major damage to Royalex so far. I have made one repair, though. This spring I put a deeper than normal scratch in a Royalex boat. The scratch seemed to be through the outer vinyl layer at one end. I scoured out the whole length of the scratch with a folded piece of sandpaper, then washed the sanded area with alcohol. I didn't find JB Weld at my local go-to store for this kind of thing, but they had a bunch of products by a company called "Power Poxy". Rather than go to another store, I got their version of JB Weld called "Poxy Weld", and it worked fine. After patching, I sanded the material down flush with the hull. It sure looks like a durable patch. I would have no qualms about using this same method for future repairs. (Oh gosh, that reminds me. I'm pretty sure I have a scratch in my Supernova that needs patching!)
I hear that some people tend not to mix epoxy-type adhesives well enough. I put the two materials side-by-side on a piece of cardboard, in the form of puddles that are the same size. Then I mix them with a nail, with lots of swirling, scraping and folding motions ("folding" is a cooking term - I couldn't think of a better word to describe that type of mixing).
I'd get to work on this right away, since it doesn't take much work. Be sure that you apply the patching material with a minimum of excess, because sanding it down flush with the hull is rather tedious, and if you are careful not to sand the surrounding hull in the process, it's rather exacting work too.
Thanks
I hope I can get the repair done and still have time to get the rest of the stuff ready for the trip.
Mark
Get yourself a few playing card size …
… quick patches to carry along . You apply them over the area “on the inside” as well “if needed” during your trip … just a back-up plan .
Not to make fun , but your spin out drilling motion event , struck me as quite funny , but probably didn’t seem that way to you at the time .
Doubt you repeat that in a hundred years if you tried to …
What are “quick patches” ?
Can you also suggest a source?
Actually I did think it was pretty funny. I saw it at the last moment and side-slipped to miss it. I just caught it on the side of the canoe (I can tell from where the scratch starts). Somehow I rotated the stern around and put the spike right under my knees. I stopped the canoe and thought I was off it, but when I took a reverse stroke to back away I just started spinning. If I could do that without being stuck on a stick I bet I could win a freestyle competiion.
Mark
there are many brands and types …
… of “quick patches” . I don’t think quick patch is a specific brand name though .
The ones I’m thinking of off top my head , “make their own heat” in a self contained packet . I’ll try to find that specific brand tommorrow , and get a link for you if I can … It’s considered an emergency repair kit .
So many kinds of patches and glue combos too .
Mark , this is one type that makes …
...... it's own heat "emergency kits available" ... water source heat .
here on p.net , look in left column menu , click "Accessories" ,
click "Boat Repair/Maintenace" ,
click "Rec'Repair-CRG Industries LLC" ,
they call them "Rec'Repair" ..
also check out their "site" link , more patches ..
this is the kind of stuff I was suggesting you have along for when that "karma" you spoke of , goes hiding ...
can't believe i'm still up , paddled for ten hours today , half of that up river against rising stage ... Im tired now (3 spelling edits just this one post !!) ..... was a good day ..... great fishing today , not to mention 3 big Muskie , my type of canoing ..
Thanks
I was meaning to get some of those “Hippo Patches” but never got around to it. Looks like I should have. If I understand correctly they are some kind of cold application waterproof tape.
Mark
J.b. Weld
I’ve used J.B. Weld to patch small dings, holes and build up ground down stems. I think J.B. would work just fine for the repair you describe. You might want to try “JB Kwik” which is a 5 minute version of regular JB (that takes MANY HOURS to cure). Take the tubes with you so you can whip up quick patches in the field if necessary.
Be forewarned that very large repairs in flexible parts of the boat can pop out or crack in the long term since cured J.B. Weld is much stiffer than Royalex. In those situations, I use regular epoxy and polyester cloth, but I don’t think this’ll be a problem for you at all.
Phreon
Well …
… I think these make their own “chemical” heat with water as the activater … like around 190-200 degrees or something when ready . Nice thing about them is , they are ready to use when you need them most … not just for flat surfaces either !!
yeah Phreon …
… pop out , thus my reason for suggesting the back-up patches , on stand by …
Unlikely
Having a backup is always a great idea. However, I think J.B. will hold up just fine; my old solo Mohawk is pockmarked with similar dings patched with J.B. Weld and every single one have them has held up fine. I would add that roughing up the area to be patched with 80-100 grit sandpaper helps the epoxy hold better.
Phreon
Devcon
plastic welder, you got about 5 minutes per batch, 10 minutes later you can sand smooth and paint
Sounds cosmetic
from your description. If it’s really just a small conical impression that may have punctured only the outer ABS with no associated ‘crease’, then there has been virtually no structural compromise to the hull. Any ‘body filler’ type approach is all that’s needed. I like PC-11. It’s been on my OT RX boat for years and has held up amazingly well at the stems, where I put it when they wore down to expose the foam core. It’s harder than the ABS/vinyl, but flexible enough to take occasional impacts (it does show shallow dents) without popping off. Downside is price and color (off-white). Mfr. says you can add pigments or UTC’s (Universal Tinting Colors) or paint over it, though I’ve not bothered to try either. I call it ‘canoe spackle’!
"Permanent Patch"
For a temporary repair I have used duct tape where I bashed the Royelex Sandpiper on a rock on the San Marcos River and cracked through the outer layer. Mine sounds worse than yours and the duct tape worked for a period of time till it started getting worn off and peeling up. I later did a better repair with plumber’s epoxy. The plumber’s epoxy was a quick, cheap fix (about $3-4 for a stick) and lasted about a year before it started breaking out.
However, I purchased patch materials at Lowe’s or Home Depot that I think cost around $7 or $14. It is waterproof. I bought one to try, but I haven’t used it yet, so can’t advise on how well it works, but here is the information from the package:
The name is “Permanent Patch” It is by the makers of Super Glue. The package states that it “Cures with sunlight;” “permanent and waterproof;” “Paintable, Moldable and Sandable.” The package says it is for wood, fiberglass, plastic, metal, concrete, rubber, drdywall, etc.
Further information from the package:
“Permanent Patch is a very easy to use UV or sunlight activated repair patch. It is fiberglass-reinforced polyester and creates long-lasting repairs around the home and office or on personal watercraft, boats, engine parts, decks, fenders, gas cans, drain pipes, water tanks, PVC pipes, plastics, plexiglass, fiberglass, metal, wood, concrete, bedliners, exhaust pipes, mufflers, flashing, rain gutters and more.”
Instructions are:
- Clean surface and roughen with wire brush or sandpaper.
- Cut patch to slightly larger than repair area.
- remove backing and press cut patch over repair.
- remove clear nylon film prior to cure.
- expose to direct sunlight or UV source for 5-50 minutes, depending on sunlight intensity.
- drill, sand, and paint immediately after cure.
Not recommended for drinking water or food contact applications. Rubber or plastic gloves recommended for sensitive individuals. Use in a well-ventilated area.
It was in the hardware store section of glues and adhesives, same aisle you’d find the JB Weld.
One of these days I’ll get around to repairing the hole in the sandpiper.
J.B. Stick Weld
is what I used recently to repair to dings in my Mohawk Sport. It works much faster than plain J.B. Weld and with no mess. It cures hard in a matter of minutes and you can sand and paint right away. Total repair time was less than an hour for two dings.
I also recommend roughing up the surface prior to applying the stick weld, then with wet fingers, work the weld into the ding and get it as flat and smooth as you can. The closer you get the weld to being flush with the surface, the less sanding you will have to do.
I’m going to start carrying J.B. Stick Weld with me on paddle trips as well as in the car. You could repair a ding and be back on the water in a matter of minutes using this stuff.
Thanks for all the help
I wound up getting the thicked G-flex epoxy repair kit (West Systems). My hole is in one of the most flexible areas of the canoe (right where I step in). From what I read G-flex is similar to JB Weld and PC-11, but is supposed to be a little more flexible.
I found a very interesting report on the internet where they used it to repair 58 (yes 58) cracks in a Royalex canoe where the wood gunnels had been left screwed on during a Colorado winter.
I will take some pictures and do a short report when I finish the repair.
If you do not see any posts from me in a week or so please send help to rescue the kayaker who epoxied himself to his canoe.
Mark
Repairing a crack/gash in Royalex canoe
I need some advice on repairing a Mad River Canoe (16 ft Royalex) that has an 8-10 inch gash in the side of the hull right about at the water line. The gash goes completely thru the Royalex hull. The damage was caused by the canoe being dropped on top of a metal road side guardrail support post (don’t ask). I happen to have some of that two-part epoxy putty stick (“Mighty Putty”) and was thinking of using that to fill the crack/gash. Any suggestions (other than don’t drop the canoe on a metal guardrail support post!)?
More info
I meant to say that the gash/crack in the Royalex is 8-10 inches long. The actual gap in the crack is only about 1/8" wide at the widest point.