Uh, good counter points, but
as a side note, my QCC has a skeg, and works well though a wide speed range. Only condition limiter is me! Where does that fit in your world?
Envyabull is 100% speed focused, so I put his comments in that context. A beginner might not. His stlye paddling is indeed best with a rudder. Very fast SKs, race baots and skis designed to run with rudder - all powerd by wing paddles. Excellent setup, and the only way to go for that style paddling.
For the masses however, I think rudders are very much oversold.
Fear not Scott, I converted another to the non-rudder camp yesterday and she’s much happier now. She realized she’d become a bit rudder dependent over the first mile in the new boat, but the tracking started to tune up from there. Her previous boat was and SOT desinged to run with full time rudder (designed like a ski). Her new boat is a classic old school skegged Brit boat SINK. What a contrast! As a beginner who’s paddled both - she prefers rudderless after one day (and she had good ski type pedals before).
Both, neither, whatever.
Both are good for non-beginners who know what their specific uses will be. Those uses determine choice, but this is different for new paddlers.
Just starting out most are paddling mostly under 5 mph, over shorter distances, in low wind conditions. A rudder is a disservice there as it is not needed and can mask poor technique.
Depends on the boat too. Many only have a rudder option (or nothing) so if you want that boat the decision’s made for you.
I’m a fan of paddling with neither most of the time, but with longer boats in wind - better to have one or the other. I have a long boat that catches some wind and while the skeg is up 90%, it still earns it’s keep.
Bicker Banter Rudder Skeg …LOL "8-P
You guys crack me up. Maybe there should be a full page informative article written by someone who understands the use of skegs and rudders, someone who designs kayaks. That would be nice to see as a referance for people to look at since it’s always a hotly debated subject.
my newbie 2 cents worth
we have a tandem SOT with a rudder. When I use it alone (it works as a solo as well) I don’t use the rudder. I find it easier and more comfortable to just paddle where I need to go and control the boat that way. HOWEVER, my husband loves the rudder. He uses it solo and when we go together. He sits in the back and uses the rudder which at times I find very anoying because if he’s not paying attention (which happens often) I have to tell him to either put the rudder up or straighten it out. My son uses the rudder when he goes solo and says it makes it easier for him (he’s 17). My point is… a rudder that you can use when you want to and pull up when you don’t is convenient and gives you an option. I encourage you to learn to paddle without the rudder but for those times when it’s difficult to control the boat at least you have a choice.
Okay now the experts can give their opinions again…
Good point Lesa
The use of a skeg is pretty straight forward but the rudder is something completly different. Triming a loaded sea kayak even a finely designed boat is an art and will change how the boat reacts to wind and wave. A rudder can be very annoying to use until you get used to it. I think it’s one of the most misunderstood subjects about kayaking. I don’t think most people will really know what a rudder can do until they find themselves expending an extreem amount of energy trying to get from point A point B on a very bad day when the weather changes on them. It’s hard to design a kayak to fit everyone and act the same whoever is paddling it, that’s why QCC, Perception, Necky, and just about all the major boat maker use rudders and skegs. The perfect boat for you will not be perfect for the next person. Skill and paddling experience have much to do with weather you use the rudder/skeg or not too. The more you learn the less you need to rely on that third hand device, but it’s nice to have in a “jam”…no pun intended.
In mild conditions,
anything works great! Rudder, Skeg, or Nothing.
In over 25 knots winds, you had better have a good rudder such as Surfski or K1 style. No matter what boat you have, and have good of a paddler you might be, it will not be fun without one.
Regards,
Iceman
Nice post.
We all know a good kayaker will learn boat control without use of tracking aids. I think we should spend our energy encouraging that. We also know that to design a sea kayak for maximum speed it will be using a rudder.
Whenever a sidewalk expert tells me "that boat can't be a sea kayak, it does not have a rudder," I just chuckle these days. None of my current boats are ruddered, odds are my next one will be a ski or ocean racer less than 20 inches beam and it will have a rudder.
For some of us, playing in surf, enjoying the currents in rock gardens, and having a boat that will function well if the hull holds together is fun. (I cannot decide if it's fun or a source of fear yet, but I'm working on it ;-) ) I enjoy having a boat that weathercocks little in winds under 25 knots, and I know that Scott B does too. For others, paddling lots of miles in a day is fun, and a rudder is usually the easiest way to do that.
I completely agree with that
Cheers,
JackL
I guess it all depends on what
fun means.
I guess Paul Caffyn
will explain it better than me.
He used to be a anti-rudder paddler who have become a rudder user 100% of the time.
This is the link to the articule:
http://www.sissonkayaks.co.nz/caffyn.htm
Regards,
Iceman
Interesting, but…
probably not relevant. If I paddled in the extreme conditions he does I would also have a rudder. But I also would not have a 13.5 foot plastic boat and a push/pull rudder system.
What is your point???
I clearly said “Surfski or Olympic K1 style”
Ice, I think his point was…
… that Ski/K1 type rudders are not available on 98% of the boats people paddle here! You may not like that - and may think everyone should be in more efficient racing craft with that type of rudder - but that’s highly unlikely.
While your advice is technically correct - it is only applicable to a rather narrow and somewhat elite segment of the paddling community. It’s unrealistic to advocate that type of gear for everyone.
You know very few of the paddlers here will ever move into that sort of paddling - so your advice is not really addressing the needs of the people asking or dealing with the equipment they will use.
easy…
The original post was asking about equipping a specific boat for a specific paddler, not a general rudder/skeg question.
Well, yes - but…
… when the boat offers both options - we are right back to the basic question: Rudder or skeg
No getting around it.
This is not a debate
Anyone that sees it as a debate does not really understand rudders AND skegs.
I tend to see skeg users here giving a nod to the rudder as another option, but many rudder users do not seem to understand the skeg (It is not some primitive rudder wannabe).
Aside from all the good race oriented rudder comments, for general touring a skeg WILL make you a better paddler. Why? very simple - a skeg encourages you NOT to use it unless needed. I makes turning harder, not easier. It is for holding straight line course in varying wind/wave conditions - and nothing else.
A rudder also works to counter wind (should be called a trim tab for that function), but is also a steering aid.
Most non-race kayaks can benefit from something to help keep the boat balanced in wind, but they should not need a bolt on steering aid. They already have three - the hull (at different attitudes) and two paddle blades.
If a new/casual paddler wants comfort more than competence a rudder’s fine. Most folks don’t paddle enough, or in serious enough conditions, for it to matter anyway.
Rudders are excellent option - but they can mask stroke problems and impede development of decent boat handling technique, are more complicated, and working the pedals impacts overall comfort and boat handling (even with fixed pedals). Given all that I don’t see how they are the better option for beginners.
To be clear, I’m not talking about boats designed specifically to have rudders - just those where it’s an option - and the paddler is a beginner or casual/rec type. Not a racer, not drift fishing, etc.
Hey Chris
Wouldn’t you have done the Bacall last year if you had a rudder?
Those of us with rudders fared very well.
Cheers,
JackL
Nicely put.
And to really answer the question we need two pieces of information that we don’t have yet: What kind of a kayak is a Necky Zoar Sport LV (is it designed to need a rudder/skeg) and what kind of paddling does the young woman intend to do? I’m sure lots of you know the answer to the first question (I don’t) and the original poster should know the answer to the second.
Skeg had nothing to do with it…
…for the Bacall. The pain in my shoulder made that decision.
My skeg problems the day before from the cord slippage prevented me from keeping a partial deployment and forced me to over paddle too hard on the right side the first three miles and I over did it. This is a QCC control problem - not anything to do with skegs in general.
Same problem would not have mattered in the Bacall as my skeg would have most likely been all the way up upwind and all the way down on the downwind runs.
Skeg is no longer subject to such problems - the Bogey was my motivation to improve the control - and coincidentally where I saw Iceman’s trim tab…
Born Again Rudder Advocate
Well, until recently, I was with the “anti-rudder” school of thought. I got a used Prijon Eski and have had it out four times on flat water. It has gas pedal type rudder controls. I’ve paddled with and without the rudder and prefer using it. Actually I use it as a skeg pushing on the pegs and not the pedals with each stroke as the rudder self-centers real well. Two elements come into play here, efficient power and rhythm. I just enjoy paddling this boat a lot more not having to think about correction strokes and cadence. It all just happens, and the resulting movement and sensations are a great pleasure. When I put my paddle in my lap and grab my rod and reel the rudder puts me where the fish are with a long, gracefull, controlled glide.