Greetings all! I am restoring a 1996 Wilderness Systems 21ft tandem sea-kayak (model name is Skookumchuck. ) My question: how is the rudder assembly supposed to be held in place?
This sit-in, composite sea kayak was designed by Lee Moyer. I hope someone has one and can tell me how it works.
At the aft end of the boat, the upper deck ends but the hull extends a bit further aft, leaving a little flat place on the stern for the rudder assembly. That area has two holes in it. One seems to be where the rudder shaft is intended to sit. Roughly an inch forward of the rudder shaft hole, there is a smaller hole that is threaded.
The rudder assembly has a short shaft (about 2-1/4in long) that sits down into the after hole. There is a hole in the pin for what I guess would be a circlip. (Lousy picture, sorry.)
The shaft doesn’t appear to extend out inside the hull. It is also situated several feet back in the very fine (narrow) stern. So I don’t see how one could have reached that far back to put the clip in, even if it were exposed.
Instead, I wonder if there may have been some kind of plate or bracket that was designed keep the rudder from simply sliding up and/or bouncing out out of the hole it sits in.
Here is my sketched up concept of what we may be looking for. This drawing is NOT accurate - it is just my attempt to indicate where some kind of hold-down bracket might sit.
I think you’re right about the bracket. It would need to have a step in thickness to provide clearance for the thickness of the rudder assembly. There doesn’t appear to be room for the alternate approach of stacking spacers/washers under the plate where the screw holds it but you could shape a custom spacer instead and then use a single-thickness plate. I would also make a thin plastic washer to support the rudder at the pivot.
I don’t have access to any machine tools to fabricate metal parts, so if it were me, I’d make a bracket out of plastic and use hand tools to cut and shape it. You can get HDPE kitchen cutting boards around 3/8 or 1/2 inch thick for the bracket (looks like you have plenty of room for a thick plate). And there are thinner cutting boards or sheets available to make a washer and possibly a spacer.
Hi Wolf, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I’m not certain I understand the specific means with which the bracket you have in mind would secure the assembly. A picture is worth a thousand words, as the saying goes. Would you mind sketching something out and uploading?
Without adding something to the rudder shaft, the only way I could think of would simply be a bracket that fits loosely over the large steering plate to which the shaft is attached. That steering plate must remain free to pivot to either side, of course.
I also thought about trying to have a welder tack on a stainless washer to the shaft, which would sit in the gap between deck and the steering plate. It would have to be above the deck when rudder is in place, but still leave enough gap above it for a U-shaped plate to slide in above it. Such a bracket would not interfere with steering at all. But if the welding isn’t precise, it would be game over for that assembly.
Here is a another view, from the side, rudder assembly in place. (The photo was not taken for this purpose and it’s a bit confusing to the eye. Ignore the red bandana hanging on the trailer behind it. )
diver 864 - My computer decided to crash just now, but I cobbed up a hand sketch and took a picture of it with my phone. The step on the underside of the part could consist of a separate piece, essentially a spacer of the right thickness to trap the rudder but not pinch it so it can’t turn.
It looks like a large head bolt is all you need. Possibly no retention bracket missing nor required. The head of the bolt is what retains the assembly. That’s the way it is on a couple of rudders I just looked at. The bolt threads in right next to the round piece on the rudder assembly that the pin sticks out of. When that pin is slid into the kayak, and the bolt threaded in right next to it, the head of the bolt will keep the assembly from coming out.
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Hi Ben,
I took a photo of the rudder assembly but
I’m a bit of a Luddite, not sure if the image will show but I can probably help. I have the Pacific Water Sports version of your boat in the garage. The stern looks like the same assembly. It’s really great fun. It’s possible the gentleman that runs the shop called TopKayaker can provide the right parts. [quote=“diver864, post:1, topic:105075, full:true”]
Greetings all! I am restoring a 1996 Wilderness Systems 21ft tandem sea-kayak (model name is Skookumchuck. ) My question: how is the rudder assembly supposed to be held in place?
This sit-in, composite sea kayak was designed by Lee Moyer. I hope someone has one and can tell me how it works.
At the aft end of the boat, the upper deck ends but the hull extends a bit further aft, leaving a little flat place on the stern for the rudder assembly. That area has two holes in it. One seems to be where the rudder shaft is intended to sit. Roughly an inch forward of the rudder shaft hole, there is a smaller hole that is threaded.
The rudder assembly has a short shaft (about 2-1/4in long) that sits down into the after hole. There is a hole in the pin for what I guess would be a circlip. (Lousy picture, sorry.)
The shaft doesn’t appear to extend out inside the hull. It is also situated several feet back in the very fine (narrow) stern. So I don’t see how one could have reached that far back to put the clip in, even if it were exposed.
Instead, I wonder if there may have been some kind of plate or bracket that was designed keep the rudder from simply sliding up and/or bouncing out out of the hole it sits in.
Here is my sketched up concept of what we may be looking for. This drawing is NOT accurate - it is just my attempt to indicate where some kind of hold-down bracket might sit.
*[quote=“diver864, post:1, topic:105075, full:true”]
Greetings all! I am restoring a 1996 Wilderness Systems 21ft tandem sea-kayak (model name is Skookumchuck. ) My question: how is the rudder assembly supposed to be held in place?
This sit-in, composite sea kayak was designed by Lee Moyer. I hope someone has one and can tell me how it works.
At the aft end of the boat, the upper deck ends but the hull extends a bit further aft, leaving a little flat place on the stern for the rudder assembly. That area has two holes in it. One seems to be where the rudder shaft is intended to sit. Roughly an inch forward of the rudder shaft hole, there is a smaller hole that is threaded.
The rudder assembly has a short shaft (about 2-1/4in long) that sits down into the after hole. There is a hole in the pin for what I guess would be a circlip. (Lousy picture, sorry.)
The shaft doesn’t appear to extend out inside the hull. It is also situated several feet back in the very fine (narrow) stern. So I don’t see how one could have reached that far back to put the clip in, even if it were exposed.
Instead, I wonder if there may have been some kind of plate or bracket that was designed keep the rudder from simply sliding up and/or bouncing out out of the hole it sits in.
Here is my sketched up concept of what we may be looking for. This drawing is NOT accurate - it is just my attempt to indicate where some kind of hold-down bracket might sit.
Hi Ben
*cape fear posted essentially the same photo I was trying to figure out how to post. I have the Pacific Water Sports version of the Skook and the stern looks the same as yours. Super fun boat! The screw acts as a keeper. You might have luck with Tom at TopKayaker.com for parts.
Yes, Chesapeake Light Craft, I think their website is CLCboats.com.
I no longer have the boat of theirs that used the rudder, but if I remember correctly, it just used a fender washer to cover the gap, since with them you drill into an epoxy end pour to mount the rudder and retaining screw.
Thankyou to you both, CapeFear and HikeMike, for the tips and pictures about the retainer screw. I don’t think I would ever have thought rhat one up - so simple! Unfortunately the boat is not at my place right now, so it’ll be a couple of days yet, before I can try it.
I can’t wait to see if this works!
If not, I’m still encouraged by the other good ideas that have been put forth, and am confident there’ll be a way to fix it.
Thanks to CraigF for the tip about Chesapeake Light Craft - that gives me another good option, from a firm that’s still producing product. Thanks again to Wolf, and Andy too.
I will post the outcome when I get my hands on the boat again.
Couple of folks have mentioned that TopKayaker.com might be useful. In fact I have already been on there and it is a tremendous resource. Already picked up all kinds of good nuggets, gotten the benefit of other people’s know-how, and also found a comprehensive market for kayaking gear. It is a great resource, and Tom Holtey, founder, is a very giving and encouraging guy for newbies like me. Shout out to topkayaker.com (forum) and topkayaker.net (shop).
Here’s a followup question for those with first-hand experience of the keeper screw: does the disc that is at the top of the pin/shaft need to be able to rotate (independently of the shaft?)
I think mine is fixed in place, or maybe just seized to the steering cam plate above it, with years of buildup. Had not gotten around to cleaning up the rudder assembly yet. That’ll be this weekend, too.
Thank you to everyone who shared ideas, experience, and ultimately, sister-ship photos. The end result is shown here. The guy assisting us with some fiberglass magic came up with the similar solution you see here.
