I Call it “Keel Sucking” on the Water.
Just biked from about 6:00 to 8:00 with a fast group. Animals kept surging and trying to drop one another. I used 'em like mules and was able to finish third at the last stop sign of the evening.
"Kudzu, why don't you get some aero bars?"
"Don't need to. You ARE my aero bars."
That customer base likes rudders
even though the kayak may perform great without one, they will sell far more if it is there. I think that’s OK, valid, and adds value for “that” customer. Some here are NOT that customer, but that does not invalidate the boats or manufacturers, or those who choose that product.
I think people have an inherent need to assume that “their” particular paddling style and preference IS THE WAY. As such they advocate strongly for a position when in my mind there is no “WAY”, just choices with pro’s and con’s.
For example, lets take a Graham Charles who paddled slalom for new Zealand and I’m pretty sure could paddle circles around everyone on this thread in a bathtub… He prefers a ruddered sea touring kayak.
So that kinda messes with the non-rudder superiority thing eh? And believe it or not folks he’s one of thousands around the mud ball. There’s a lot going on out there beyond our little worlds, clubs, chosen guru’s etc.
It’s not about skill, it’s about preference! Different intended uses, styles, etc. Why does there have to be a line in the sand for so many people? I truly don’t get it?? I like non-rudderd kayaks and do pretty well in them, but the nano-second you assume your a badass cuz you paddle no rudder you’re in for on hell of a suprise.
Is it not enough just to own one’s own preference without denegrading another choice? It’s there, sometimes subtle other times not,but it’s there…judgement and elitism. I guess it may allow some to feel better about heir choices in life / paddling?? I dunno.
Not directed at you friendlyfire,(only first two sentences) just an overall thought as I peruse this thread. The water doesn’t care. Rudders are a great tool. Skegs are a great tool. Non-either boats are great tools. They all are limited.
the Nord LV
excels in high wind and open water.. I've had it in 30 knot winds and it was a dream in any direction..
you can't say that for most kayaks..
my point was that a skeg can give a kayak the ability to handle well in both calm and rough conditions.. it can also allow a kayak that turns well to track well..
If you think there are truly kayaks…
… that are neutral in conditions, I’d say you haven’t had them in enough different conditions. Sure. some are better than others without skeg or rudder, but those others aren’t typically sold without them as they were designed to have them.
Even the Mariners have skegs - and when you factor in the the sliding seats they are even adjustable skegs!!!
Every kayak hull has it’s pluses and minuses, so each has some combination of wind wave that will result in a need correction via blade - be it paddle, skeg, rudder, or combination.
Which blade is best for any given combination of hull, paddler, and conditions depends on a LOT of other interrelated things.
There is not right answer, nor should there be. Kayaks designed to have adjustable skegs or rudders do so not out of deficiency, but to extend their favorable characteristics over a wider range of use (and to do this requires some built in weathercocking with skeg. Can go either way with rudders, a lot will do same and some of those designed for full time rudder use may even leecock without).
Can’t really see needing a rudder on a Tsunami 145 though. Not short enough to have the rec boat waddle and lean issues or long enough to have major wind issues of a longer sea or race kayak - or be as able to make use of built in weather cocking as part of a larger control strategy.
agree with slight weathercocking
yakwise, I fully agree with your comment on weathercocking being a desirable feature.
Here in Australia we have the Nadgee (a copy of the Mariner) that is neutral in flat water but I hear (from very highly esteemed instructors) that the kayak leecocks too much in rough waters.
I have an Impex (Assateague) that weathercocks a fair bit up to 20 knots. Above that it becomes neutral.
Well, in light winds I just deploy my skeg and all is good.
On the other hand I hear from a new Nadgee owner that he has trouble turning his kayak into strong wind.
Hmmm… I think I rather have a slightly weathercocking kayak then a leecocking one any day.
Wind effect on kayak direction (cocking) is also relative to the speed of the kayak.
At low speeds (starting off) there is little pressure exerted onto the bow of the kayak compared to when at cruising speed.
What might leecock slightly at low speed seems to disappear at cruising speed.
I have one kayak that does that.
Moving the seat forward (trim) has changed the kayak to a slightly weathercocking one that I adjust with the skeg.
Not just length
We had a 14.5’ Looksha Sport that was almost uncontrollable in a wind with a light paddler unless the rudder was used.
People who paddle boats that are too big can have real problems with control in the wind. On the local lake I’ve had to “rescue” a few kids in adult rec boats who got blown downwind and couldn’t get back.
If a boat will be used by a range of folks a rudder might make sense.
One more opinion
My first kayak had a rudder and I used it to steer the kayak. That was a bad idea because I became dependent on it. Later I read that you should learn to control your boat without a rudder and should only use the rudder in windy conditions where the boat is getting blown around. That turned out to be the best advice.
Since then, I have learned really good boat control without a rudder, but my kayak (different one now) still has a rudder and I use it only when appropriate (in heavy wind). Like Salty said, I find it reassuring and comforting to have one - they are a great tool if you use them wisely.
My Artisan Millenium has a skeg
and that’s all it needs. My Prijon Calabria has a rudder and even that is barely enough is some conditions (and I’m not talking about extreme conditions either). Use what works for you and your boat.
Safety!!!
I view it as a safety item. It is a piece of gear that sits on my boat un-used unless needed. I see no harm in having a rudder so long as you are aware of its real purpose and do not abuse it. Learn to paddle and rely on your skills not any piece of gear. I say add the rudder to your gear list.
I like the rudder that Hobie uses
on their line of pedal boats. It folds up flat againt the deck instead of sticking up where the wind can catch it.
http://www.eastcoastkayakfishing.com/hobie-kayak-fishing/41-hobie-kayak-fishing/278-hobie-kayak-rudder-upgrade.html
Guys I get all that
Believe me.. I grew up in the Mariner era and even taught surf paddling for Gronseth some years back. (Can't get more anti rudder than that) I know the entire encyclopedia on anti-rudder rationale.
People can very easily enjoy a rudder equipped kayak AND learn all the boat control jazz! Flip the rudder up! They have their place, they work for many people including world class paddlers. Your posts are common rationalizations that I've heard for two decades and I just do not agree with. It's the same old predictable speech from the "no-rudder camp". Understand I'm not arguing against your good points about boat control etc....But not everyone needs all that or wants it. AND, they can still flip the thing up and learn the things you speak of. Sure, a solid footbrace boat without the extra hardware will accomodate that better, but they have options that may come in handy for their intended use.
Again, where we differ is only in how we think about another style of paddling, and assumptions about the ability to learn boat control in a rudder equiped kayak. Agree to disagree.
If the OP finds rudders clumsy then don't buy one! But I believe it's a mistake to discount things that are not to our personal liking.
"its real purpose and do not abuse it"
So true of so many things 
Nordkapps with rudders
The boat used by Paul Caffyn -
http://www.sissonkayaks.co.nz/nordkapp.htm
Caffyn on rudders:
http://www.sissonkayaks.co.nz/caffyn.htm
To rudder or not to rudder…
My only experience with a rudder was the first time I ever paddled, which was on a guided tour with an outfitter. It was not a fun paddle technically, because the rudder cable kept coming undone and/or jamming. It was very frustrating.
Subsequent boats either had no skeg/rudder or have always been skegged, which was my decision based on the boats I selected to paddle. However, when I had a brief career as a guide, I learned very quickly the advantages of rudders for non-paddlers. I was working for the outfitter that I’d done my very first paddle with and the rudders were a godsend. It kept clients on track,it kept them from the sometimes frustrating phenomenom of the boat having a mind of its own, it helped their speed, such as it was although it was amazing how quickly some people learned to paddle fast, and it made group management a little bit easier as you knew, at least, they weren’t going to wander off to Portugal if they couldn’t maintain some semblence of group direction.
Rudders do have their place in the kayaking world, just as skegs do. I find it somewhat annoying when paddlers start dissing skegs as being a slightly more sophisticated version of training wheels. Yes, you should learn boat control sans skeg, but you should also learn when and how much skeg to use. It’s just another tool.
Whatever floats your boat and paddlers would probably be a lot happier if they concentrated on what they were doing rather than worrying what everyone else was using (RUDDER!! SKEG!! NADA!!) or not using when on the water.
Boat control
"For example, lets take a Graham Charles who paddled slalom for new Zealand and I’m pretty sure could paddle circles around everyone on this thread in a bathtub… He prefers a ruddered sea touring kayak."
I think it would be reasonable to assume that he also has excellent boat control and doesn’t need the rudder!
“It’s not about skill, it’s about preference!”
Pretty much. Just don’t let a rudder keep you from learning boat control without it!
Agree nj…
question for you salty
…and understand I think your point of view is entirely correct.
But so you not think a rudder can be a sales tool, another “feature”? It might be more appealing to a newbie to sell them on having a rudder, than to sell them on the absence of having one.
My understanding is that a rudder, in cases such as the OPs, helps more in maintaining course than in turning. But in reading the posts I’m not seeing this (or maybe I’m the one who’s misinformed). I guess my point is that just as one shouldn’t put down ruddered boats or those who like them, one shouldn’t automatically assume that the presence of a rudder is justified or makes the boat a more complete package. It’s a tool but it still has to transition to being a useful tool.
Hate to add to this but …
I used to have a boat that was a “rudderless” design - a fiberglass Eddyline Falcon 18. I liked the boat a lot but it was difficult in following seas and quartering seas from the rear. It had to be leaned much more than I had courage to do at the time. I notice that the current Falcon has a skeg. I have concluded from that experience that I want to have either a skeg or a rudder and ordered my QCC 700 with a skeg. The pluses and minuses of lwhat was available added up for me to favor a skeg.
I think it is important to also add that there are rudders and there are rudders. I have paddled many boats with push/pull rudders and would never have that kind on any boat of mine. I would only consider a gas peddle rudder although I don’t know which of the several versions out there I would choose. So for me the question of rudder, skeg, or neither is nonsense. There are too many kinds of rudders and skegs to consider them a unitary category.
To kick the stern back into line
A rudder on a short boat, like a rudder on a long boat, can be very useful for putting the stern back where it belongs when you’re in the process of catching a wave and need to use the paddle for power rather than steering. It can also compensate for weathercocking, but that’s mostly only an issue in near-flat conditions where boat control really shouldn’t be an issue with or without rudder.
See, there are lots of ways of doing this parochial Follow the Shoe! No, the Gourd! thing. But it’s still tiresome.
understood & agreed
very good points here by salty, njkayaker and Glenn, among others. I think it is useful to sort out what design dictates rather than the market, while acknowledging that the latter heavily influences the former!
Haven’t stated my preferences yet, bec. I think they are irrelevant to the discussion. But anyone who paddles with me (or checks my profile) knows I like a narrow kayak w. sleek, uncluttered deck. That’s an aesthetic as well as a functional criterion.
I recall a post maybe two years ago by Jay Babina saying a rudder spoils the beautiful taper and pure form of a kayak. I didn’t choose the boats that I did bec. of this statement, but prior to ever reading it I was already in agreement. As aethestics are so very personal, I would not fault anyone who thought differently.