“A no wake zone, is a no wake zone”
I seem to recall reading that there was quite a nasty wake in this particular zone.
Rules/signs don't make it so, and pointing the rules out after the fact does squat to undo the infraction.
Paddlers need to keep the Laws of Physics above all others.
At least two have been involved with SAR
Probably more.
Don't confuse sentiments with actions.
Many posters, as well as motor boaters, you don't like/agree with (and who are really complete strangers) would probably be the first to offer aid in any real need situation. To assume otherwise is not only shortsighted, but ignorant and rude.
Greyak,
I never stated that any poster would not assist in a rescue. And "to assume otherwise is not only shortsighted, but ignorant and rude."
*edited to sound a little less snooty*
;)
Then explain your comment:
“Specifically, the ones I’m glad are not in the SAR business”
To borrow from your 3:30pm post
"You can discuss 'em 'til you’re blue in the face - and can be right as rain on every single point you make - and it won’t do a damn thing to fix other people, or prevent unethical behavior, or do a damn thing to keep you safer."
Yes, there are deterents. They’re called citations. How many folks have gotten a speeding ticket or really, any other kind of ticket and when you pass that same spot where you got it, you think about slowing down, etc? In my world, SAR and L/E are mutually inclusive.
As for my comment, it’s easy to become jaded, especially for folks in the an emergency responder business, because you see things everyday that you know could have probably prevented the situation. Doesn’t mean that you won’t respond. But sometimes, there’s a time to keep your opinions to yourself.
You and I can go back and forth all day long, it’s not going to change the fact that we’re pretty much saying the same thing, just differently. Both of us agree that paddlers need to be prepared for anything. I do not agree, however, that there is no correction for dangerous, often illegal behavior and one must adopt the bohica mentality.
Two kinds of prevention
What you’re talking about now, citations and such, is applied after the fact. Punishment, not prevention. Might prevent a recurrence by that person, might not, but I can’t really call it effective prevention even if it does as it cannot be applied until AFTER the deed is done at least once.
Besides, most that cause the sort of problems being talked about here are typically more clueless jerks than deliberate criminals. Cite 'em anyway if that’s your job, they’ve earned it, but keep the effects in perspective.
Personally, I put more stock in the other more direct kind of prevention. Preparation, awareness, avoidance, etc.
Otherwise, yeah - we likely agree on most of it.
Well, if directed at me
I was in the search and rescue business as was very good at it thank you. As big an asshole as I may seem to some of you I have legitimately risked my ass on many occassions to serve others on mountains and on the sea. My opinions on this board are not often popular because they come from someone who lives in multiple worlds. I do not understand, admire, or respect elitist anybody’s be they paddlers or boaters who are not respectful mariners.
Believe me I know power vessels can be rude, but my point all alobng has been and will be to overlay that stereotype with a reality check of ourselves as paddlers and how we interact with others. That ain’t always pretty and we need to look at our own behaviour through the eyes of the other guy.
Good day.
You and me both Celia…
…Every paddler should learn that skill if their cockpit size and knees will allow it. If not, they should not plan on launching at a restricted, busy site, whther frequented by power boats ot hand launched boats. If they have an ocean cockpit by choice they won’t be putting themselves in harm’s way.
KAYAKS ARE SPEED BUMPS! IF YOU THINK WE HAVE ANY RIGHT OF WAY YOU ARE DELUSIONAL!
Sorry about the caps. I just see it all the time with rental boaters without clues. Probably a thread of it’s own.
Jon
I don’t agree, at all, at all
Preparation, avoidance, perception–exactly the same sort of actions that will keep a drunk driver from running a red light, broadsiding you and crushing your car.
Sure.
We have laws and rules because we need them to live together on this crowded earth. It should be just as unthinkably wrong for someone to make a wake in a no wake zone as for someone to walk into a bank with a gun and demand an emergency withdrawal.
You may be able to increase your odds, at least somewhat, by being careful. But it’s time and past time for every single person to learn that this is a crowded world that we all share together and that everything you do affects other people for good or ill.
It’s why you shouldn’t litter, you should make every effort to limit your impact on this earth, and you should not make a wake where it might effect other boaters negatively.
We need to change the perception of what is allowable behavior. We need to understand that operation of a motor boat is a privilege, not a right.
I’d actually go a lot further if it were up to me (and I’m sure 99% of the population is really happy that it isn’t). If you want to run a power boat on the weekends, then I think you better bike to work during the week to make up for your impact on the earth. If you injure a manatee (common enough in Florida), then I think you should lose, permanently, your right to operate a power boat.
We need to share the earth without harming it–we need a leave no trace ethics for the ocean as well as the land. No oil in the water, no damage to coral reefs, no overfishing, nothing that indicates that you have been there.
[and, to save you the trouble, I don’t care one way or another about what you think of me and probably won’t bother to read any responses]
I can
tell you what I would do… try tying your kayak up to their tow hitch and then you could have some fun!!
A good question, Celia,
as all your responses have been. About the launch bay, you said: “Is it bordered by a dock or similar that you could learn to launch from the other side of? Granted it might take some practice to get used to entering or exiting the boat from some height, but it is doable if you take the time to practice.”
My first choice would have been to put the boats in the water from the side of the dock outside the launch bay, but the tide was already beginning to turn out and we would have been entering kayaks that were trying to drift away (I prefer to have the current approaching the dock side, for better control). This was only our fourth time paddling these new boats. Also, the “pilings” on the down-current side extended out somewhat from the dock, making it even more of a challenge to board them.
There was nobody else in sight at the time we were putting our boats in the water. We chose the easterly dock, as it was a lower, floating dock. I was informed that it was routine for kayakers to put in from this site, although there were no other paddlers in sight at the time we put in.
Angel
A few issues caught my attention.
First, sorry about the rude powerboaters. So far I haven't had a problem, although the place I usually put in has six ramps and it's a cool beach community.
However, almost all boaters show up and put in as quickly as possible. They back right in as soon as possible.
Your mistake was having your wife at the floating dock while you were some place else. As someone said, always prep up just to the side out of the way, then carry the boats to the ramp, get in and go. In this situation the foating dock is a hazard.
Don't think you can lally gag around the floating dock, shaking your fist, and expect others to wait putting in their boats.
If people are violating a no wake zone at the ramp, then carry a cell phone with a camera. Otherwise, wakes are part of boating.
You also mentioned that your wife was secured in with a spray skirt. Can she do a wet exit? If you have to call the sheriff to come and get you off a sand bar or mud flat, you aren't yet prepared for those conditions.
Also being sucked under a floating dock is a hazard you should be aware of. Pulling yourself up onto a floating dock takes a lot of upper body strength.
I wish you the best in preparing yourself for a safe kayaking experience.
I would suggest hiring a guide/instructor to show you the procedures for coastal kayaking.
You have also picking up a lot of good info in your own research to put to use.
Hope things improve! It takes some effort but worth it.
Edit: I can see how this happened. Not your fault. It's just not the same as a lake in NC, where there are a lot more rec paddle boats. Coastal kayaking is much more of a challenge.
Well all I can say Angell
Is you seem to have pissed Georgie boy off in a big way.
angell?
“We went paddling today in the Nassau Sound area off Amelia Island, Florida, our first time in that area…
We are in the transition phase from rec to sea kayaks and my wife, in particular, is quite inexperienced…
I discovered the muck was almost like quicksand, as I attempted to get out and turn the boat to go after her. I was stuck in the mud, literally. She was now out of site, and I was hoping she would overcome her panic and beach her boat around the bend – but, having no way of knowing whether she was drifting further out on the retreating tide, I made the choice to grab my waterproof cell phone and call for help.”
You didn’t know the area. Fist time there. Didn’t put the kayak in and get going. By admission your wife is a “quite inexperienced”, while you claim to be a recreation kayaker. Then you panicked got stuck in the mud, and called for rescue.
The point being, the coastal rivers at a boat landing is not a place for a anyone who is “quite inexperienced.”
It’s as simple as that.
So far I have only tried to impart information and offer encouragement. I think that with some basic instruction you would have been able to have a successful trip in the same circumstances.
I tried to be as concise as possible. I tried to point out some hazards you weren’t aware of, and why the time you chose was dangerous for the first time there. The rest of your behavior towards me is disgraceful and completely out of context. My post were on topic and addressed the specific issues you mentioned.
Another comment
With a little trepidation, I'd like to add a couple of comments to this thread.
To angell (if you're still monitoring): Any time you post to a forum, you'll likely get a wide range of responses. Some useful, some not so useful. Some blunt and critical, some more sympathetic. I've learned that you need to glean useful advice from the posts and simply ignore the advice that is destructive or mis-guided. "Road Rage", "Forum Rage", no different. All of us experience things that tick us off and most just learn to deal and learn from it.
To the other posters: Many of us have probably unintentionally gotten ourselves into a risky situation at various times. Maybe it was because we overestimated our skill level. Maybe it was because someone else did the unexpected. Maybe because of an "act of god." I know that I have. I have to believe that, before things started going downhill, angell felt comfortable with the planned outing (certainly, he did not intentionally put himself or his wife at risk). I'm willing to bet, whether angell admits it or not, that he learned some things from his experience AND from some of the opinions expressed on this thread. I think angell's "problem" and what is generating some of the vitriolic comments on this thread is that angell is so p----d of at the power boater, that he is blinded to the fact he (we) have very limited control over the actions of others. Therefore, as aggravating as it might be, we need to adjust our plans, our skills, etc., to compensate for what we cannot control, even if it limits our freedom to do some of the things we'd like to do.
ditto
Excellent advice
Late entrant in this exchange
I live on a lake and there are lots of power boats and personal watercraft zooming around, especially on weekends. They violate the law all the time by coming too close to docks while making a wake, staying out past sundown without lights, etc. We also paddle around this lake several times a week even though the possibility of a serious problem is real. So, to answer your original question:
best advice in whole thread
defensive
Dr Disco-
I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but is Michigan really so different than over here in Wisconsin? My advice to Angell was going to be: move somewhere like WI where powerboaters obey the law and observe no-wake zones. I don’t think it’s because we’re any nicer on this side of the state line. I think it’s just because our waters are patrolled, and anyone who breaks the regulations gets a citation. Down in Madison, any little wake in a no-wake zone means a fine. Most powerboaters know they’ll be caught, so they obey the law. Once upon a time, I would paddle 3 times a week in the Madison lakes, surrounded by powerboaters, and they were all reasonably polite (especially at ramps). Maybe it’s Wisconsin manners, but seriously, I think it’s Wisconsin water patrols, and that fact that people call others on rude behavior. You don’t need to get into a confrontation, just report violations to the authorities (as you did) and let the good folks who get paid to deal with it take care of it.
And Angell, I hope you wrote a thank-you note to the Coast Guard, and even more important, to the guy’s boss. It sounds like he was polite and helpful, and the more we recognize public servants who do great jobs, the better off we’ll all be.