storm paddle
shoved under the back deck lines with a paddle float jammed onto either end.
sponsons and training wheels!
Paul
question
Interesting ideas, glad you raised the question. Iām not a sea kayaker, but Iām a little familiar with the sea (from sailboats) and Iāve read a bit about sea kayaking, including many accident reports. Like others, Iāve noted that many trouble reports start with one paddler who canāt stay upright in rough seas, often due to either illness or overestimation of skill level.
My question is, how/where would you attach the sponsons for best stability, and how much help would they provide in rough seas? And how big are the sponsons weāre talking about? With just, say, a 3-4 foot-long, 6-inch diameter tube on each side of the cock pit, it seems like youād be in danger of getting flipped entirely over, sponsons and all, in 7-10 foot + seas, and especially in irregular, breaking waves like around river mouths, and again especially if the paddler were somewhat incapacitated by illness or seasickness. Would sponsons really help?
have tried it too
this does have some merit. Tried this myself. Advantage, is mulit-use solution. Disadvantage is very slow forward speed, creates allot of drag, especially in rough stuff. Yet, might be best compromise. This is akin to the idea I saw somewhere of placing two paddle floats onto a tired personās paddle blades and they assist actively in keeping upright. I like your solution better. For non sick non injured paddler the more active they are, the better. Keeps them warm, engaged and focused and allows them to recuperate while being towed by just paddling easily.
Got any ideas of how to not have the floats create allot of drag??
here are some ideas from Wayne
ā Last Updated: May-10-09 5:18 AM EST ā
I found a discussion by Wayne Harodowich from his University of Sea Kayaking site. And below is a link to the Harmony sponsons.
Yes the questions you raise are totally right on. They are quite effective up to a point, like everything. But, they can be remarkably helpful in some very rough stuff. I recently saw them used on a Nature PBS show of a solo paddler on the island of Mull Scotland with them on his Capella. He obviously is using them to photograph from his kayak and for safety as he paddles solo in the ocean. Read the article and share your thoughts.
http://www.useakayak.org/recoveries_rescues/sea_wings_recovery.html
http://www.mountainsports.com/msmain.asp?Option=Detail&Detail=121289
http://www.outdoorplay.com/store/product_images/enlarged/en_ESA_HYSPO.jpg
From Wayne:
As an instructor and guide I feel one of the greatest uses of Sea Wings is the ability to stabilize a kayak in the event you need to tow a paddler that has difficulty staying upright on their own. If your paddling partner was very sea sick and had difficulty in keeping his or her balance, it would be a lot easier to tow your partner if they had a pair of Sea Wings attached and inflated in the event there were only the two of you. In this picture the paddler is being towed and the drag on the person towing was minimal.
The support provided by Sea Wings can also be used for the following:
1- stability in rough conditions
2- relaxed lunch break with feet out of the kayak and reclined (could possibly catch a nap)
3- extra support when getting in and out of your kayak by docks or obstacles
4- possibly fishing, but be very careful not to hook the bags or puncture them with a fish spine
assuming just two people
If there were three you tie on through one persons rigging and onto the next boat and tow both out. Just had to do this yesterday.
very stable raft environment.
I hope that if you are in bigger water that you are carrying a VHF radio and that if you have an incapacitated paddler in a true emergency you are calling for help.
I was a bit tongue in cheek when I suggested the "training wheels. I woudl probably want to have one outrigger only and if the paddler was in a bad way, lean him/her over towards the outrigger and make it as stable as possible. Lots to be said for the traditional inuit rigging where you just jam your paddle under the lines, tighten with the slider and you have an instant outrigger.
(works for stand up peeing also)
Most sea kayaks I have seen do not have the capability of jamming a paddle out there and keeping it securely tied to the boat as it is usually bungee material in front of and behind the cockpit.
Paul
hey salty , thatās what they come ā¦
ā¦ get you in while you wait for them in one of those rafts , hopefully .
Ed Gillet
I donāt have any personal experience here, but Ed Gillet used pontoons on his tandem kayak during his 2200 mile crossing from California to Hawaii to rig the boat for sleeping. He also used sea anchors to keep it headed into the wind and swell. He encountered plenty of bad weather, so itās obviously possible to do this without getting flipped.
rule of three but then reality bites
Yes three is better for sure. Reality bites even then, as one person may be split off by conditions. Then you have a solo kayaker fighting to stay up and rejoin and one to deal with himself and the sick one.
Again, this was just to see if the plus reasons outweigh the negative. Answer for me is maybe.
how long to inflate?
How long does it take to blow these up?
If used to tow an incapacitated paddler, the victimās boat has to be pre-modified to accept the sponsons, right? If thatās the case, unless there were widespread use of these, and it was likely that your entire group would have sponson-ready boats, it would seem that theyād be of limited usefulness.
Perhaps you could gain some of the advantages (stability to keep a victim upright, ability to take a relaxed break, etc) by using two paddlefloats under the after cockpit perimiter lines. Granted the seawings have more functionality, but it seems to me that the added gains are unlikely to be realized because of the need for pre-rigged-boats and the time to attach/inflate them when needed.
Self-sufficiency for all possible rescues is good practice, but in reality, where I paddle, if I have a completely incapacitated paddler, I think Iād be irresponsible to attempt to bring the victim to safe haven without coordinating on the VHF with USCG.
well said
you raise many valid points. the sponsons do not need to have any prep but you can put them on your own boat in a more secure fashion.
As with any one piece of equipment, practice in the worst conditions you will face with them and learn to use them for self rescue as well.
Yes, any course of action should be thought out with regards to the rescuer being safe first and then a sequential action plan made and communicated to authorities.
other boats
Sorry for being a slow learner here, but just to clarify - youāre saying that the sponsons can be attached to any kayak. The pre-installed attachment points make a quicker or more-secure fit, but even without them the sponsons can go on another boat that hasnāt previously been set up for them?
yes
strap system
no prep necessary
Iām not sure if this is what you mean by āstrap systemā, but I can see how it would be easy to deploy sponsons on an unprepped boat, simply by tying them together with an appropriate length of cord (or straps). Push one of the pair under the boat, and itās going to rise toward the surface on the other side and make a saddle out of the attaching ropes. That step will tend to stabilize you, if the water isnāt too rough, and then you can take a little more time to run ropes or straps over the top to help hold them in place.
yo tide play
what about your DRIVE to the launch point, what happens if you get sick while you are driving? You going to carry a back up driver? is your car painted safety Yellow? Do you carry one of those SAT phones so folks can stay in touch with you? I mean really a person could fall off the couch and die while reaching for the remoteā¦ I agree with the curmudgeon Jack L You know that guy with NO kayaking experienceā¦ L just paddle a raft around if you are worried about stability, or get a Sot so you can simply hop back on, its not rocket science. Tarpon 16 is very stable and easy to hop back on, and because its a sot its a blast playing with it in the surf, when the crap hits the fan you simply bail off of it. that is assuming you know how to swim and have a PFD onā¦ Also anything Inflatable can leak!!!
really
why not just raft up, lash the boats together, and then you can render assistance AND you are stable. No extra crap required, except perhaps a Paddle to wedge under the deck line oe some kind of short strap. If you have three folks in your party, put the sick dude in the center. If you are solo, your screwed any way. If your so sick you cant stay up, then you are probbally too sick to use and or attach sponsons.
several people are missing the point of
DISCUSSION. It seems Tideplay is asking questions to start a dialogue, rather than to seek an āanswerā.
Since when does having experience validate being a curmudgeon? If that were the case we would all be bad-tempered and difficult since we all have experience. I, for one, do not know JackL or have any knowledge of his seemingly vast experience, therefor he is being an inexcusable curmudgeon. Of course, I think any curmudgeonly behavior is inexcusable.
JackL seemed to answer in a smart-ass manner, Tideplay called him out on it, and then a couple of people jumped to JackLās defense. Jackl is a big boy, I am sure if he can dish it out then he can take it as well.
unprepped boat
Iām not doubting that these can be attached to an unprepped boat, but it has to be by some means other than what you describe of simply tying the sponsons to eachother with line over the boat and line under the boat. If that were it, the boat could just roll inside the sponson harness.
I imagine they need to be secured to existing deck line fittings, and secured by a strap under the hull in order to provide stability.
Wrong
Sponsons require clips to be installed on every boat theyāre intended to be used on. Itās not a simple āstrap them on and goā situation. Additionally, if you were in rough conditions, strapping anything around a hull would be next to impossible and the risk of injury while attempting to do so would be unacceptably high. If you are going to use sponsons, you need to rig every boat for them in advance. Thatās one of the best arguments for eschewing them in favor of more practical solutions using existing equipment, such as two paddle floats attached to a spare paddle shoved through the deck rigging.
IMO, for most paddlers, sponsons are just a waste of money and another example of excess gear that you donāt need. Perhaps for fishermen and photographers who may need extra stability on a regular basis, they make sense. As safety equipment, theyāre a bad joke and in truly difficult conditions, theyāre worse than useless.
real concerns
ā Last Updated: May-11-09 10:01 AM EST ā
These are my concerns also. Too many equipment decisions and for that matter, rescue methods and towing methods simply don't work in conditions.
And, when I experiment with them if they cannot be attached in conditions, then they are not worthwhile for those circumstances and I will report back objectively here.
For the circumstance Wayne Horodowitz is talking about,
As an instructor and guide I feel one of the greatest uses of Sea Wings is the ability to stabilize a kayak in the event you need to tow a paddler that has difficulty staying upright on their own. If your paddling partner was very sea sick and had difficulty in keeping his or her balance, it would be a lot easier to tow your partner if they had a pair of Sea Wings attached and inflated in the event there were only the two of you. In this picture the paddler is being towed and the drag on the person towing was minimal. After using Sea Wings on a number of occasions I think they are worth having along on tours for the extra options they can provide. Some adjustments need to be made to fit different kayaks, but it is a small inconvenience for the benefits provided.
If, and it may be a big if, I can see a valid reason to have them. For anyone who, like me, has been violently sea sick, or who has helped someone who was dizzy, throwing up, and weak, it might be a good thing to have in the scenario above.
This post is a bit of a departure for me, who basically believes in good judgment, basic equipment, improvising, and having knowledge, navigation, communications, and a pod of skilled friends to avoid most of this stuff.
And yes Bynstrom, I may bag this idea! Good discussion
rolling
If sponsons were used for extra stability underway in rough conditions, I imagine they would eliminate the possibility of rolling back up if you did get knocked over. So if tipping is still a possibility, any capsize would require a wet-exit and remount, rather than the possibility of a much faster roll-recovery.
Iāve never tried these things, so I canāt say how likely a capsize would be, but Iād guess that if conditions are so bad that you need them to stay upright, that a capsize even with them on is probably not out of the question.
Any comments on that from people who have tried them?