Where can I find value of used Sawyer Summersong I am looking to purchase? Anyone have an idea? It has a ding in the gel coating, should I be concerned about this. New in the canoe. Thanks
goSolar
details
Which iteration of Sawyer made it? The twelve digit HIN code imprinted under the rail on right stern quarter would help.
Is it a FG or a Kevlar hull
Does it have wood or aluminum rails? If wood, what type of wood and what is the condition.
Is the hull scratched?
Reply
This is fiberglass, I cannot attach photos of the boat, the #, the ding, in the message board… may I email these directly to you?
$1000 and don’t worry about the gel coat
chips, if it’s the Summersong that I have for sale.
Probably less if it’s someone else’s for sale and then you might be concerned about the gel chips.
As Charlie suggested, more details on the specific boat would be helpful in determining value.
eval
– Last Updated: Jul-09-09 1:16 PM EST –
I would think you could type in the HIN and whether the rails are wood or aluminum.
Watching folks pass on a pristine $1500 Lotus BJX in Kevlar a couple weeks ago, I'd be interested in what might make a glass Summersong worth a $K.
Send the pics to charliewilson610@roadrunner.com
Summersong more versatile and user
friendly than a BJX. I’ve owned both of them.
Summersong can be sat or knelt, BJX was purely kneeling.
My BJX was 20 lbs lighter than my Summersong, but I didn’t like to paddle the BJX and did like to paddle the Summersong, so the BJX was sold and the Summersong was kept.
Value of a boat is always a personal thing. We’ve all seen boats sell for way more than we thought they were worth and also seen boats well for way less than we thought they were worth.
Markets are highly localized. Shipping charges are a big factor if the boat is far away. Inability to personally inspect a boat before purchase is a factor.
Location, location, location!
All kinds of factors go into the perceived value of a particular boat.
My BJX sold for $600 and that took a few months, so I’d be real impressed to see someone get $1500 for one.
The BJX Charlie
is referring to is mine and I’m actually asking 1200…not trying to sell here, just clarifying the record. And to me it’s worth it. If it’s not to anyone else I can live with that…and the boat 
Summersong values vary widely.
I’ve seen used Summersongs advertised from $500 to $1200. I heard of one with rudder purchased for $300 by a dealer in WI.
They’ve been built by four different entities, I believe, currently by Superior Canoes in MI.
Trim and outfitting options that I’m aware of:
- Wood trim.
- Aluminum trim.
- Fixed position Hung seat.
- Three height sliding tractor seat.
Which geographical market you are located in can make a huge difference in how much a Summersong is likely to sell for.
Real world weight for a goldenglass Summersong with aluminum gunwales and three height sliding seat is likely in the neighborhood of 50 lbs. Mine with a foot controlled rudder installed weighs about 59 lbs.
How is the one that you’re interested in trimmed and outfitted?
Happy paddling, whether you buy that Summersong or not.
Rudder in a canoe?
Can I see a picture?
summersong sawyer
I have photo’s but cannot post them on this website, email me at rebapple@comcast.net and I will forward photo’s.
Thanks for the support.
Email me and I’ll send you a few.
Email sent.
Again
– Last Updated: Jul-11-09 9:19 AM EST –
If a Kevlar Lotus BJX is worth $1200, it'd take a rare, Kevlar, wood trimmed Summersong to match it's value. No glass composite, alu trimmed, twenty tear old Sawyer is worth close to that.
The Lotus BJX was, maybe, the most beautiful canoe ever made, a 28 year old design by a visionary designer and paddler. Rarely made in Kev, it has unique molded tanks and side pods, the latter holding an elegant seat slider. The seat is the best ever made for a kneeling/sitting solo canoe. With Peterborough shaped outwales sanded to 600 grit the boat is a work of art.
Downside, the hull is tippy for those with marginal balance, it was never as fast as it's length suggested and it forced the development of the outside heeled wedge to get it to turn a 180. It tracks quite well. While the woodwork was top drawer, the laminate had two layers of glass to one of kev and the partials were torn mat. The soft edges "hide" the partials and make for a stiff bottom, but the laminate is heavy and, maybe, not as tough as we've come to want for tripping.
Summersong is another 28 year old design, but by the most prolific and successful designer of solo canoes of all time. Under racing spec, it's a flier, much faster than BJX, and tracks even better. It turns more easily; responding to both inside and outside heeled turns, but happiest with the combo of an inside heel with a reverse sweeping low brace for a hard, secure 90 dg turn.
But Sawyer's build quality was questionable. The three height sliding seat was/is a plumbers nightmare. I just about gave up changing tube height on one last week. The spring that locks the tube in place was bent and wouldn't release. I have personally seen the footbrace brackets open up a paddler's foot like a snow saw. The roving interior and partials, dating from the sixties never resinated well, so freeze and thaw delaminations starting at the voids are always a question. [The roving exterior is part of what's wrong with the StarFire Mold.]
Sawyers Kev hulls were much higher quality skittles, but the trim and outfitting were getting pretty dated by the 90's.
And, of course, aluminum rails almost always hog a canoe: straightening the sidewall shape and the shearline curve.
So we're comparing a quirky paddling work of art, pretty well built boat with a better hull shape made just well enough to sell with dysfunctional trim.
Here’s a pretty Summersong.
– Last Updated: Jul-11-09 12:02 AM EST –
http://www.redrockstore.com/canoes/canoecustpics/gardnersawyer.htm
My kevlar BJX wasn't in pristine condition, but in good solid condition with some gel coat chips and scratches. I just looked at the pictures that I took before selling it and definately was far from pristine. It was a unique and interesting design. My recollection was that I thought that the BJX was a touch faster than the Summersong, but less maneuverable. The build quality did seem good. The only functional problem that I had was that the seat would sometimes slide backward when kneeling when I didn't want it to. It didn't take much to raise the seat frame pegs out of the holes in the track and free up the seat to move.
At 155 lbs, I was too light to paddle the BJX empty and I rarely have a load of more than 20 lbs. It was designed for tripping and I don't trip.
I have no doubt that a primo kevlar BJX should bring a much higher dollar than a not so primo 20 year old goldenglass Summersong with aluminum trim.
I certainly agree that Sawyer build quality varied widely. My goldenglass Summersong seemed to be built quite well. My goldenglass Starlight had the seat frame hangers installed so that they weren't parallel and only the lower seat level can be used until I put spacers between the top of the hanger brackets and the gunwales. My Loon cockpit coaming wasn't epoxied to the deck all the way around and some of rivet heads pulled through the coaming. The Loon cockpit rim was also too flexy until I installed a thwart behind the seat frame. The gel coats on all of them were quite good.
I certainly wouldn't pay or expect to be paid anywhere near $1200 for a twenty year old, aluminum trimmed glass Summersong. I did pay more than that for my 31 lb 21 year old Curtis Lady Bug this spring. Edit: The Lady Bug had never been used.
In the end, the market determines the value of a boat for sale.
I'd never heard that aluminum rails tend to hog a canoe. That's an interesting bit of info. I had assumed that the rails were pre curved before assembly.
It is very nice to have a variety of designs and builds to choose from.
Aluminum rails
are not precurved before assembly.