Scorpio LV, Avocet, or Avocet LV?

Love my Capella 160 RM, but it’s a little big and I have trouble rolling it. I’m 140 pounds with really short legs. I put the peddles on the Capella all the way up and I’m still slipping a bit.I want a kayak 50 pounds and under for day paddling and a little surfing.

I’m thinking about the Scoprio LV RM, or the Avocet or Avocet LV, probably in composite. Wondeirng how the boats compare. Also, whether the Avocet LV or Avocet would be a better fit. Hard to demo these boats where I am. Thanks.

Where are you and what sort of terrain is it that you typically paddle on?

Oh, on more for your list; the new P&H Delphin 155.

See you on the water,


The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY

I’m near Cincinnati Ohio. I’ll take the boat on the Ohio River some, but mostly in smallish surf on the Gulf of Mexico and Dune Lakes around there. I may get up the Great Lakes some. Forgot to mention I’m a 5 foot 1 woman. I’ve been reading about REALLY light (100 pound) paddlers in the Avocet LV. I’m wondering if it’s a solid boat for someone 140 pounds. I like a boat that fits and oncerned about the weight (need 5 pounds or under) as I want to be able to carry and car top the boat by myself.

The P&H site shows a blank on weight. At 15’6", over 22 inches wide, plus the full hull shape, seems like a higher volume boat compared to something like an Avocet LV …maybe even the Avocet itself. Seems like it could be a heavy boat in plastic.

Interesting boat though. Sorta like a Zephr. Wonder if P&H will bring out additional sizes?

Worth a trip to demo I think
110 looks like the middle of the weight range for the Avocet LV… 150 at the high end. But 150 looks like about the middle for the Avocet.

The Scorpio is a heavier and larger boat I believe, somewhere around the Cetus MV. I demo’d the MV. It’s larger than the Avocet, and higher volume too. And more like 55 pounds in composite. Your probably a better fit for the Cetus LV, but that’s still bigger than an Avocet.

I demo’d the regular Avocet recently a few times. I’m 5’ 9", 165 (sorta). For fit, I figured with gear I’m closer to 175 or so, so at the high end for weight. Plenty of room in the boat, and I know taller people use it as a day boat. That’s kinda how the boat felt to me as well, like I was at the the upper end for weight. Personal choice, I prefer to be closer to the middle.

You’d have to try them on to check the fit.

As for quality, nothing beats a Valley. Or P&H. These are very nice boats.

Looks like you paddle on the ocean and great lakes, so it might be worth a trip to one of those spots where you can demo these boats.

Avocet for me
FWIW, I’m 5’3", 125 pounds and my Avocets fit me beautifully. I also have a Capella 160 RM (that I’m now trying to sell) and have the same issues with it as you do.

I’ve always been curious how the LV fit would be in comparison, but have never found one to try out.

Fit is everything
I have recently acquired an Avocet LV and am VERY pleased with it. At 5’1" and 115 lbs, it fits nicely, rolls easily, and paddles beautifully. It’s a tad under 50 pounds. The full-size Avocet, Scorpion and Capella 160 were all too big for me to consider. Fit, sizing, and the feeling of “Oh, this feels good,” is highly individual and personal. Take the time and make the effort to demo these boats, and others, so you are sure of your choice.

I’ve had an AvocetLV since the spring and found that, of all the boats I’ve owned including a RomanyLV and an ExplorerLV it fits and performs the best for me at my weight (118-120) and height (definitely 5’4").

However, I also have a fiberglass layup, which I prefer, and my boat weighs in at around 55 lbs. In fact, it’s heavier than my husband’s (he’s 5’9"/155)2007 Avocet. The dealer who I bought my boat from told me that Valley is now reinforcing the area around the foot pegs and the deck. I’m sure someone from VKP can confirm this, though.

The husband fits in my boat but is not terribly comfortable.

And, as everyone here has told you (and will continue to tell you) you have to demo the boat yourself for fit as everyone is different. Certain boats for small paddlers, namely the Impex Force3, don’t work for me at all, nor does P&H. NDK fits almost perfectly.

Bettering that 50lb mark in plastic for the length and type of kayak you’re describing is gonna be tough. In the composite realm you’ve got options.

You’ll hear lots of testimonials from fans of Avocets so enough said on that. For your composite list I would add the North Shore Atlantic LV (sorry you’ll need to grab a flight on Orbitz to come here to try that one), the P&H Delphin 150 (plastic Corelite construction) when that comes out in the Spring or a lighter layup Aries 150 as that comes online. In longer boats there are options too but your criteria seems to be in the touring size not in the 17’+ range.

See you on the water,


The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY

Re the weight and car topping a boat by yourself, I got my 50 pound or so Explorer onto my roof alone just yesterday. Not necessarily as fast as a guy would, but with a decent width rack and sliding the boat up over a blanket it gets quite doable. I wouldn’t try to lug it any distance alone without a cart, nor do I know many other women who would. So I am not sure that a few pounds lighter will get you into significantly easier handling that way.

As to your fit - at 5’1" thigh length is likely to be your biggest factor. I wouldn’t worry much about the 140 pounds - an extra 20 pounds over some posting here is just a couple of water containers and these are boats that are intended to go camping.

Which boat will really come down to where the thigh braces and your legs find a comfortable angle to meet, and it is near impossible to tell without sitting in the boats. My guess is that the Avocet LV is going to feel like your legs are fairly flat, the regular one is likely to feel pretty froggy-legged and the Scorpio LV somewhere in the middle. But you are the only one who can judge what angles your legs and back can take comfortably over a longer paddle.

Atlantic LV …
Used to be called the Shoreline I think? I demo’d that one as well. Nice boat, Valley’s “value” boat: well made, slightly less than a Valley on some of the fittings.

My take, it felt like the Atlantic LV had more volume than the Avocet… more room in the cockpit, maybe higher deck. Between the two, I liked the fit of the Avocet better, but felt like I was at the high end of the weight range for the Avocet. The Atlantic LV, to me, fit more like the Aquanaut.

It’s a good boat to compare and demo with the Avocets and other boats mentioned … we’re all made a little different, and like different things when it comes to fit. As long as they get the boat that fits right, I can’t see anyone being disappointed with anything about any one of these boats.

Another thing to try
While it won’t solve the weight problem, have you tried foaming out the bulkhead instead of using the footpegs? You can also foam out the sides and thigh braces to snug up the fit, if you want. You may find that these changes will make the boat easier to roll and handle in general.

I didn’t have any trouble rolling a Capella 161 in rough water, and I’m just under 5’3". That boat had foamed-out bulkheads. The composite cockpit fit might be smaller than your RM, though. The boat did feel loose to me–it just wasn’t a problem.

Thanks for all of your help
It sounds like the 5 foot one is the real problem. I’ve thought about foaming out my capella. I’m not too hot at it. At one point, I glued some foam to the foot pads and they soon fell off. I have some WW Wavesport hip pads in the boat and they really help. If boat manufacturers would just put a few more notch in the foot adjustments,I think there’d be more options! I suspect that the Scorpio LV will have the same leg length issue as my Capella. But your right. One sit in the boat and I’ll be able to tell. I’ve paddled a friend’s avocet for a short period and right away, I could tell it’s a better fit. Looks like I’ll be doing some road trips.

Foot peg issue
If footpeg placement is the main issue, remount the footpeg track x number of inches to the rear. It just takes measuring & drilling 2 new holes and filling the old ones. You can patch the old holes in you RM boat with a little G Flex and a piece of plastic backing on the inside. It’s done. However, being a boat junkie myself, don’t interpret my suggestion as dissuading you from buying another boat though.

Owner of Scorpio LV and 5’-1.5" and
i love the boat…it fits me well. Heavy as all get out, but it is what it is and i deal with it. Good luck.

Atlantic LV
The Volume of the Atlantic LV is in between the Avocet and the Avocet LV… I like the North Shores keyhole design - As said before… you have to sit in each Boat. If you are ever on East Coast - The Kayak Centre of Rhode Island has both the Valley and the North Shore line of Boats… They are a Demo Centre too - you can try be for you Buy!!

Other North Shore Locations
Have North Shores here in Hyde Park, NY too. Tad closer to Stewart Intl. in Newburgh, NY.

See you on the water,


The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY

is polycarbonite(?) a good material for these lower volume kayaks? Seems to me a kayak with little overhangs around 15’x22" could be pretty light and tough.

Another one
I’m of your size and paddle a P&H Vela, the smallest of their expedition sea kayaks. I threw away the foot pegs and put some nice cut minicel on the front bulkhead. Stays there without glue.

P&H Vela
is an excellent smaller person’s boat. It is quick and responsive. It is worth trying one.