Anyone know what roll Jay teaches? I couldn’t find out on his Web site.
I’m trying to figure out what DVD to get. Man, are they expensive! I’ve read the comments here on EJs and Nigel Foster’s DVD, and about the Kayak Roll DVD.
Is there a roll DVD that includes all the various sea kayak rolls, or more than one? That would be a good DVD, for people to learn all their options underwater, not just one. Thanks.
Anyone know what roll Jay teaches? I couldn’t find out on his Web site.
As he says on his website, Jay Babina’s 1st roll “demonstrates a simplified approach to learning the extended paddle roll”. The DVD is worth every penny. Whether or not that’s the only roll you want to learn, it’s a great roll to start with.
DVD with more than one roll type?
thanks. Still wonder if there’s broader roll DVDs out there. Dubside’s video shows a ton of greenland rolls, but i am interested in learning my options with sea kayak roll. Plus, some of the greenland rolls and manouvers don’t look shoulder-safe.
They’re (Most of them) only shoulder intensive if you do them wrong. Most of them are almost effortless once you learn them, because they teach you to use body position and balance to execute them.
That said, there are one or two more exotic ones that are a little painful, and I avoid them because both my shoulders have been injured in the past in various activities, and I don’t need to re-injure them. But those are beyond most rollers anyway.
To see what I mean, there is a video of Cheri Perry doing a straightjacket roll that illustrates that you only need body position and flexibility to roll — no paddle, no norsaq, and no arms:
And I’ve seen her do it in a production Outer Island.
How to chose
Personally, I’d recommend at least three - as I find all of them approach it differently - and where they overlap makes it clear what’s important - and that there are options - so you don’t get all hung up on details spinning around in your head. For others the mixed info is more confusing and has the opposite effect.
My top 3:
EJ’s Rolling and Bracing
The Kayak Roll
If you can only afford one, it’s a tough call.
If you’re learning/practicing on your own - go with Jay’s DVD as it is designed for this.
If you’ll have instruction - ask what is closest to how they teach.
If you will have a helper/spotter - any will work.
Jay’s is a low stress approach that sort of baby steps you in reverse order (more logical than it sounds). EJ keeps things very simple and positive. The Kayak roll breaks it all down and explains the elements really well.
Rolls taught are similar/related. Jay’s is an extended paddle sweep roll with layback finish (Greenland standard roll). EJ’s is more of a sweep to C with layback. Kent Fords “Kayak Roll” is sweep roll (extended paddle or not) with an upright finish. All are good rolls to start with - an once you get one - the others come much more easily.
Any of these DVDs will get you going ready to transition to other rolls. At that point - or as inspiration before - hard to beat Dubside’s DVD. Greenland rolls ARE sea kayak rolls.
For now, pick whichever makes most sense or looks most interesting. Try to add the others later. All have a lot to offer.
learning the roll…
For what it’s worth, I think Jay is right about learning the extended paddle layback roll as your first roll (and perhaps your only roll, especially if you get into greenland paddling). We have lots and lots of folks up here on Lake SUperior trying to learn to roll their sea kayaks. In my club, every person who has insisted on starting with a C to C roll (or even a sweep roll without layback) is still working on trying to get a reliable roll, 2 years later. Those folks who started with the extended paddle layback roll tend to get their first roll during their first rolling lesson (and it’s pretty reliable by the end of the season). At least from my experience, starting with the easiest roll makes it easier to learn additional rolls. Working with a very well fitted boat, and a good instructor, also make a huge difference.
greenland rolls, euro paddle?
very cool wayne. Thanks. Makes me think of trying some of these with my sea kayak and euro blade. Ever try that?
extended paddle, c to c
managed this one for the first time saturday,which suprised me. Someone showed me what to do sitting on a cooler. I practiced it a few minutes the next day, then actuall did it on teh water.
I come up now maybe about 60 percent of the time. the rest of the time i’ve re-entered and rolled up after a few tries.
Why I am interested in other rolls is it takes a bit to set up for an extended paddle c to c roll, which could be a problem in a real situation. So, i’m thinking i’d like to learn rolls in normal paddle position. Which one of these would be best for that, GH?
extended paddle layback roll
okay, I’m sold. I’ll get his video–my goal is a roll that works all the time.
Most work even with a broomstick once you get them down. I’ve used a replica harpoon to do several of them (No joke).
The behind the head roll is a little tough with an EP, but even that’s doable. It’s all a matter of believing you can do it, and figuring it out.
if people are still trying to learn a roll after two years they need better instruction!
Any roll you learn correctly with correct efficient technique will work all the time.
Unless there are certain uncommon factors involved most people should be able to roll in 2 - 4 hours. Usually it takes about 30 - 45 minutes to be rolling consistently with good technique.
Everyone has the ability to roll a kayak, not everyone has the ability to teach people how to roll a kayak.
How about free?
Extended paddle roll
My video is teaching the extended paddle roll - lay back style. I did this video so people can teach themselves to roll and go on to the shortened grip from there. It's real focus is the euro paddle.
As far as videos being expensive $30..
My largest group of satisfied customers comes from people who paid CERTIFIED ACA and BCU instructors $75 - $150 and never learned to roll. Many kayak shops won't carry my video because they believe in teaching the paddle grip hip snap type of roll yet they have an enormous amount of clients that never learn and they still take their money!
I don't want to use this board to sell a product. I did this video because there was a need. There was only 1 roling video (Grace under pressure) when I made it. It's occassional lunch money for me that that's it. But I get emails all the time from people who taught themselve to roll in an hour and paid for rolling lessons and never learned.
Use others opinions not mine. I have seen them all and there are some good ones out there. But try to lean the lay back style first and your chances for success will be much higher.
The reason you won't want to do a lot of different rolls in the beginning is ... believe me, your hands will be full just learning one and practicing it so it gets reliable.
There's plenty of people around who would show you for free in a club or just paddling around. Don't be afraid to ask. Good Luck!
If you're not only happy with mine but overwhelmed, and learn to roll, I will refund your money.
Just practice capsizing from all angles
… at speed, etc.
Getting to setup - for rolls that use that position - can occur before, during, or after capsizing. Doesn’t matter. Getting to setup takes all of a second or two, and with sea kayaks you generally have lots of time and room.
Getting paddle into position can trip folks up sometimes - so practice moving it around while underwater, switching sides, etc.
From there, explore different rolls with different setup positions. Get a bit of variety and you’ll likely find your way up without even thinking about setup.
I should have bought it first…
… but wasn’t aware of it when I was starting.
I self taught from “Kayak Roll” and got rolling OK on one side - but other side felt like I was starting over. Got 1st Roll and used that approach and other side came with very little effort.
“Dubside’s video shows a ton of greenland rolls, but i am interested in learning my options with sea kayak roll.”
Didn’t you just answer your own question?
"I’m thinking i’d like to learn rolls…
“in normal paddle position. Which one of these would be best for that?”
Babina was the key for me
I taught myself to roll, and the Babina DVD was the key. After maybe ten sessions using books as the guidance, I was coming up maybe once every 5 times. After getting the Babina DVD, everything came together. The way he broke it down worked perfectly for me. Like others, once you have the extended paddle roll down, I’d recommend EJ’s Bracing and Rolling for developing normal paddle position rolls.
When working on the extended paddle roll, what worked well for me when practicing in the beginning was having a nice bouyant piece of minicell (with a big rope handle) stuck under front bungies so that if necessary you can grab it and use it to hip snap up rather than coming out of the boat and having to pump out.
minicell … hip snap …
I'm having trouble envisioning what you're talking about here. Can you tell me a little more?