let me know
– Last Updated: Jun-02-06 11:41 AM EST –
when you are up there. maybe I will take the next hour or two...
I got a rolling boat. Love it.
Ask Becky and Mark about the rover. Not sure it lived up to their expectations.
Paul
Sea Glider! NM
obsessed with length
yes you are Kris!
I got a rolling boat and an exercise boat…I want a light wooden tempest! Or something like that.
Actually I just wanted to build a boat. It is only 1 and a half inches taller on the back deck than my sof. but that should give me just the volume I am looking for for some day tripping.
Paul
L/W ratios - not just length!
I do like the way a bit longer hull works chop - and don’t paddle in any places where a little more length interferes.
In general I’d rather gain stability by lengthening the waterplane area than widening it - unless there’s a compelling reason for more beam. Glide over corkiness. Longer does make you look at things like weatherhelm, trim, and general maneuverability a bit closer. I seem to have gotten a decent balance with the SOF, but length can magnify any issues that a shorter hull might mask.
I am clearly biased - looking at this image comparing the two I’m definitely drawn to the Glider:
http://www.yostwerks.com/SeaGlider_SeaRider8a.jpg
Fortunately I don’t need/want one. I was looking at the offsets and the Sea Glider is a bit boxy compared to my SOF. It’s 7/8" narrower at the gunwales, but it’s chines are 1" wider. More room for my fat rear - but more stability than I need. I’m really liking the way the less boxy hull handles chop and wakes. SG is also shorter overall with longer overhangs, and more rocker…
Anyway, the construction methods are cool. If I built something like that I’d have to tinker with the lines and change everything of course. A folder would be nice to have, but maybe with carbon/foam core frame components - with some way to tension the skin - and sized between somewhere in-between these two…
Another project that is unlikely to ever happen.
and here I thought
you were just compensating L
Paul
seriously,
This boat does not appear to be much bigger than my SOF looking at the forms. We will see. I gotta remember that the chines, gunwales and keel fit around these forms so that will give it a lot more volume.
Took a break yesterday and took out the SOF, the OI and the Scupper Pro. boy am I sore today. I had been fighting a bad cold for the last two weeks and it obviously took it’s toll on me…
Paul
Paul, a favor
please please photo document every step you take…i thought with the FC Wisper I would be satisfied with a SOF but i’m itching to build one, my mind says NO (no time, rather paddle,rather hike) but its got to be a cool thing what you’re goind and what greyak and others have done.
pics
right now I have a few pics of the strong back and the drawn offsets and the cut forms.
I will be more diligent in recording the steps.
So far it is a little intimidating as I have absolutely no woodworking skills. I guess it won’t really hit home until I bring the 16 foot pieces of pine home and set positions 1 and 8 on the strongback (already drawn but not placed yet)
I wrote Tom Yost and he is sending me a new offset for form # 3 as I gave him my dimensions (distance from back to balls of feet) so that I can move it forward to be able to scoot up to roll. I will be putting foam as a backband to facilitate rolling also so this will adjust for that.
Otherwise, (ignorance is bliss) it appears as if it may come together pretty well.
Paul
medicineman.
shoot me an e-mail and I will send you whta I have periodically.
paul
Paul/Greyak–some questions
I think I like the Sea Glider or Rover (at 189 pounds I’m pushing the envelope on the Glider)…but I dont need it to be take-apart…doesnt this negate the need for the HDPE ‘snap-on’ ribs? Or would you use them anyway for a non take-apart? Seems that if you know you dont want a take-apart (my case) then aluminum ribs would be much lighter,but it also seems like HDPE ribs are much easier to make than aluminum ones ???
I do like the belief that once the frame is complete you can change skins whenever you are in the mood for a new material (and have the time to do it).
Use wood for a non-folder
Check out some of the Sea Pups and Sea Raiders on Tom’s site for several kayaks built as non-folders. The usual method is to use wood frames and stringers and the usual Coverlight skin. Tom’s boats are already cheap to make, but the wood non-folders are dirt cheap!
mattn…
i dont want wood! nothing that requires that much maint. How hard would it be to make the ribs out of aluminum? or better yet who wants to make a completed frame Sea Glider for me and let me skin it?
Maintenance?
What maintenance? I don’t even rinse off my SOF. Salt’s good for it.
Pine and oak are pretty rot resistant. Plywood for a Yost should be OK too if it has exterior/marine glue. Frames spend a lot more time dry than wet.
Greyak
what skin did you use?
i hate even talking about this,next thing you know i’ll be a hermit with a sander in one hand and a drill in the other 
but here is the reality…i was on the verge of planning a trip to Japan to get the WaterField qaanaq…the Yost Sea Glider’s dimensions are as good if not better for my intended use…and after the Wisper experience i truly love skinned boats (dont like the skin change it)…so wood for a non-folder eh?
i will be at the yost site frequently doing it in my mind first
right reasons?
The yost boat is going to be a very similiar construction to the whisper in so far as it uses forms and the wood fits into the notches in much the same way that the aluminum tubing snaps into the hdpe. the only difference is that you glue the wood together and it probably wouldn’t hurt to countersink a brass screw for strength and rigidity. Having had no experience in building, the yost boat seemed to be a viable first step for me.
I don’t really want a folder right now. If I was going to go for the portability I would either go for a khatsalano or I would get one of the three piece valley boats.
You said intended use.? What does that mean? Obviously the expense of going to japan and getting a high end boat is not unfeasible. Why not just have someone build you a boat that you want. Lots of great boat builders out there.
With a non folding wooden frame boat I guess you could put a zippered skin on it but that seems silly to me. I would want the tightest skin I could get.
Paul
Kris doesn’t understand why I don’t just build a traditional skin boat. I don’t either other than I am very aware that most first builds end up as either wall ornaments or rotting inthe back yard. After I get some experience cutting and working with wood I will build a traditional boat.
Paul
Methods
The Yost methods/components are so different I can’t see much that will carry over. Maybe not a stepping stone as you describe it, but certainly good and rewarding in it’s own way - and should get you a decent boat in less time.
A wood Yost is all offset plans, plywood, and power saws. My build was all about planes & spokeshaves, Japanese hand saws, mortising, steam bending, and lashing. All learned as I went.
You seem to think I had some woodworking skills/tools when I decided to build. I can assure you I did not. The pine recipe card box I made in shop class for Mom back in '75, or the bit’s of framing/roofing carpentry I’ve done provided no special skills/insights. I’d never used a plane before, never cut a mortise/tenon, never even used a Japanese pull saw. I’m just crazy enough to assume I can do what others can.
The books are a bit daunting/overwhelming (I had them for months before starting. I have still not read any of them through). Actually building was not like that at all. Just a series small easy steps. The toughest part being decisions about which methods to use as there are so many options. My neighbors no doubt appreciated the minimal use of power tools. I liked the redundancy/genius of a more traditional frame and the small simple parts that let me stop and start very easily, use small bits of time, etc. Definitely a good bit of work in all though.
Yours seems much more straight forward. Cut out components/assemble/skin/paddle! Hard not to like that!
How’s it coming? Very curious to see/feel that type of frame.
You’re going to have to come up with some pretty good bribery on the skinning part. It’s not hard, but I’m in no hurry to do it again. Watching someone else do it (even someone as charming as you - and even with Brazilian food in the mix) is more boring than watching paint dry! It does take some time.
I like to do mine in phases rather than non-stop. Usually over 2-3 days. I could do it all in one long day, but I can only sew effectively for so long at a stretch.
Last one went something like this: Day one (Sunday): Stretch on and pin ends. Let it acclimate a bit and re-stretch it. Pin along the keel. Stretch up sides and pin along gunwales. Take a break (should need one after all the pulling). Then do a rough trim, a zig/zag lacing to draw it together a bit and sew running stitch on rear deck. Day two Monday evening): Final trimming/edge seal aft. Roll, and double whip stitch. Break. Rough trim and running stitch forward (no lacing needed on mine). Break. Final trim, roll, double whip. Day three (Tuesday eve): Sew coaming hoop, steam shrink skin. Let dry. I had to wait until next day to get 1st coat on as I ran out of daylight and wanted to play with color.
I hope your heavier fabric is as easy to work with as the 8oz was, and the lines of the frame allow the sort of wrinkle and dart free result I managed. If not - no problem, just time to improvise. The biggest difference for the skin is your coaming. Mine is attached to skin only. It rests on masik and deck beam. I’ll have to see how yours is made and goes on to see what if anything has to be done differently.
I may just I help you get started (stretching) and show you the full sewing method on a small test piece. That way you can tackle it in sections at whatever pace you need to and I won’t have to move in.
Skin
I used 8 oz nylon from Dyson - and Zar Exterior oil based Urethane. Same cloth twice now, different urethanes. The Zar skin has a rubberier feel than the first stuff I used.
There are MANY good options for skin/coating combos. Choice depends on several factors.
your room is all ready
P
pics sent out
any of you guys that asked for them get them?
Paul
backing out on me huh?
Can’t even hold your wing hostage as I dropped it off at Charlies along with the vids.
gotta find something else to entice you with then.
Seriously. I wil read and try to do it myself. I woudl assume I will be able to stretch and pin it properly. My biggest concern is the stitching process you use to get that perfectly straight line.
Paul