He posts regularly on the SOT site, and he was sent over here to ask his question, by someone with a sense of humor. His posts on that board over time, have shown that he asks questions in an effort to learn more, and from his descriptions, he doesn't venture into situations where he is in over his head. Sometimes things get "lost in tanslation" in this format.
He headed down to the B&B to meet Frank and some other paddlers from the SOT site. He is making the move to a sink, because he has been paddling every chance he gets, since getting his tarpon, about six months ago. He has been struck with paddle fever, and he has come here for help, after ordering is second, and probably not his last boat:)
Jim, I am going to trust that all of this will make more sense to you once you paddle your boat, and develop a feel for how it moves through the water, while you develop better paddling skills. It is nearly impossible to convey what edging and leaning and bracing feel like until you have paddled a sleeker boat that can do those things. It didn't make any physical sense to me when I was only paddling the scupper.
I recently paddled in the ocean with a paddler who took his tribalance yak out. He decided to try it in the ocean "as it's so stable," and we were enjoying relatively calm seas and sunny weather. He paddles in a variety of different waters and has several yaks. He bought boat this boat for taking pictures in our local slough, and wanted to try it in the ocean. We had stopped for a moment and were enjoying the view and chatting when a swell dumped him. He was experienced, so he quickly rentered his yak with a paddle float type reentry.
My point is that, I am not really sure how well the sponsoons will help stabilze your boat in the situations that may dump you in the ocean. They may interfere with your ablility to manuever your boat with the strokes and moves that will keep keep you more stable, and upright.
I know you are not getting the feedback you had hoped for from people who have used them, but I don't think these answers reflect prejudice or ignorance, but are a product of some very good paddlers' experiences in knowing how to be safe in rough water. You want to continue exercisng good judgement about when to head out, but when you are out in water that is rougher or simply more challenging, you want to feel confident in your skills, and not be overly reliant on your gear to get you through a mishap. I know you understand that, and are just looking for a way to increase your margin of safety over time, because safety is important to you. This is however pnet's introduction to you, so to speak. They don't want you to venture into a dangerous situation unwittingly. Plenty of people have, and sometimes with tragic results.
I have received so much good advice here. It is usually given with good intentions. I would urge you take your fellow Floridians up on their offer to paddle with you, and put the sponsoons idea on the back burner for now. Spend the money on a safety class, and put some water miles on your new boat. You can always buy the sponsoons later if after time & experience, you feel they would be useful.
Jim, I think the book "Deep Trouble" is an excellent introduction to thinking through safety issues when sea kayaking. It has helped me more effectively prioritize my skills development, and gear acquistion, since realizing kayaking is fast becoming a part of my identity, and isn't just a "hobby" or sport for me.
I always wear PFD and skirt with the Q700 (so far) - but the skirt is left open a lot. You will see why shortly with that dark deck color!
On the surf ski, I may break my PFD rule. Different animal. I’ll be doing more swimming than paddling for a long time - and I don’t usually swim with a PFD on.
I see a lot more SOT than SINK paddlers around here without PFDs. I leave them alone about it(most are near shore in calm waters - and usually not alone).
I guess I don’t see where your point fits in.
These items are standard equipment, and their use widely accepted (with some personal differnces over implementation). I don’t need to modify anything to wear a PFD - and the cockpit was designed specifically to fit a skirt.
You can start a PFD debate and find those who paddle without, but the consensus has been in a long time. So to me this has nothing to do with sponsons - unless your PFD or skirt gets hung up on them! L
thanks pam Once again, thanks for your clarity and patience. I do, however, enjoy the slightly confrontational attitude in this forum. Argument is one way to elicit information and think things through. I don’t intend to offend anyone but I may get over zealous sometimes in attacking a position which differs from mine.
I use sponsons in my Feathercraft Khatsalano. They are internal and do provide stability. The main reason I use them in this boat is comfort as they provide support on my hips and keep my feet from falling asleep much better than hip pads do. They are mandatory in my wifes Kahuna, otherwise it would be a bag of bones.
Try Without First Try spending some time with your new boat in a safe place before you buy sponsons. After a short while you may not feel the need for them. They will just slow your learning curve.
Think about it! Adding sponsons to a boat is fine in flat water. However, they are useless in rough water, for the same reason that wide recreational kayaks are. Sponsons increase the boat’s primary stability to the point that in cannot be leaned into waves effectively. A steep wave will throw the boat right over again. If you knew as much about hydrodynamics as you indicate you do, you’d understand this.
Realistically, a paddle float rescue will not work in such conditions either. A reliable roll is mandatory for safety in rough water. Additionally, one should never be paddling alone in rough conditions. I’ve done plenty of assisted rescues in rough water. They’re not pleasant, but they’re effective.
Tim Ingram is a money-grubbing lunatic who will do anything - including exploiting the deaths of children - to try to line his pockets. His web site is nothing but a collection of distortions and lies designed for one purpose, to scare people into buying his useless pool toys INSTEAD of learning skills that could save their lives in an emergency. Slimebags like him are absolutely beneath contempt! How on Earth can you defend him?
Sponsons instead of skills Granted, you didn’t say that, but Timmy does so constantly. According to him, I’m a murderer and tantamount to a Nazi for teaching people paddling skills, even for free. If you want to give money to someone like that, it’s your decision. Even if I wanted sponsons for fishing or photography (perfectly legitimate uses), he would never see a dime of my money. He is a menace to paddlers and shouldn’t be rewarded for his dispicable conduct.
Besides, if you really need sponsons, you can make them from a pair of boat fenders for a fraction of what Timmy sells them for.
You’re on your road bike going down a mountain pass,up ahead is a deer,so you carefully feather the brakes but there’s no way two little fingerprints of rubber will stop in an emergency,HOW CAN YOU STOP IN TIME?? THERE"S NOT ENOUGH RUBBER ON THE ROAD!!!
use “The Third Wheels”…under hard breaking and decelleration acclerameters and computerized controls will deploy two outrigger wheels with special rubber and ABS to bring your primitive bicycle to a much shorter stopping distance. Why rely on insufficient road contact when you need all the braking you can get,but not use it when you aren’t under severe braking conditions.
Putting sponsons… …on a kayak is like putting training wheels on my Trek 5200!
If you are a non swimmer, or have that much fear of not being able to rescue yourself, or don’t know how to keep yourslf out of trouble, you should’t be in a kayak.
warm water at least that removes the argument about cold water issues trumping stability issues. If you haven’t seen Derek Hutchinsons video I’d recommend getting it and developing a sense of control with various braces under way and leaning the kayak. Focusing on worst case scenario self-rescue devices before getting the fundamentals down is like putting in five point harnesses in your car when you’re still learning to parallel park.
five point harness putting a 5 point harness in my car might be a good idea…have you ever driven in Miami?!
in the same vein, have you ever kayaked on the intercoastal here?..we have falling down drunks on jet skis and in power boats who can’t read “NO WAKE” postings.
SWIMMING I am a good swimmer. In the spring, summer and early fall, I swim nearly every day, just not in 100 foot depth ocean water with critters all about, 4 to 6 foot seas and drunk motorboats zooming by.
It’s one thing to paddle in a placid northern lake, it’s quite another to head out into ocean spray, fast motorboats and 7 foot bull sharks. I am willing to be spilled out of my boat and learn what I have to to either get back in or roll when possible. But if it were all a piece of cake, it would not be worth learning, would it? A little trepidation is what makes it fun. That doesn’t mean I am afraid to do it.
They’re agressive (unlike most sharks) but are mainly dangerous as they tend to like the shallows, the murky spots, and the mixed fresh/salt areas of our rivers and inlets. You know - all the places the kayaks go! At least they don’t seem as curious about kayaks as the big Tigers offshore…
One of the best things about S FL is the variety of condidtions close by. If you want a calm lake there are many. If you want to go offshore it’s there. You can find everything in between which will let you progress at whatever pace you like.
Jim, if you don’t already have one - get a good rack for that MINI. If you have the MINI rack you might look at J-craddle type bolt ons (I know someone here with that set up). If you have no rack I would recommend a Saris rack with 50" cross bars and the watersport saddles. Nicest looking rack, strongest, easiest to mount (self centering), integrated locks, and the saddles are super kind to your boats.
More info for Jim Lots of long posts on sponsons from some very experienced paddlers and designers, including several from the designer of your new QCC:
