Which would you suggest?
Thanks.
I just learned how to operate my saw trying to make a sea rider. Because of the learning curve, I’ve decided to start over, but I’m not sure if the sea-rider is the best one to start with. Which ones did you do?
Thanks.
– James
yes! try it
The Delphin is awesome. Maybe not a good boat if you’ll only have one boat, but if you do a lot of surfing or playing in rocks and rough water, this boat is really fun. I’m waiting for my mandatory inter-boat-purchase waiting period to expire so I can pick one of these up.
Sea Kayak v Rec Boat
The visible features that make a sea kayak, or expedition kayak or similar, go to safety and aptness for doing things like recovering from capsizes in potentially rough conditions. That’d be at least two sealed bulkheaded areas, so the boat floats level on the water if upside down, full static line (perimeter rigging) around the edges to be able to hold onto the boat if capsized and a generally smaller cockpit opening that has good contact points for a roll.
A rec kayak is not intended to be out in those conditions so lacks most of that stuff. And the really basic ones tend to be a PITA to perform a self-rescue in, compared to a sea kayak which is equipped to make it easier.
Sea kayaks were also originally intended to support long expeditions, so the full length sea kayaks can run over 17’ feet to have sufficient storage.
Older sea kayak designs often had rudders, newer ones tend to have skegs. Both devices help with tracking and have adherents.
Sea kayaks generally have a hull design that’ll feel more unstable than a rec kayak to a new paddler on flat water. That’s because it takes a different hull design to handle slipping around on waves without capsizing than one that’ll sit quietly on flat water.
There is a group of 12 to 15 ft boats called transitional, or in some manufacturers’ line touring boats, that tend to have some of these features. They tend to be wider than a sea kayak like the P&H Cetus or the NDK Explorer or the Wilderness Systems Tempest, but narrower than a basic rec kayak. They are intended to be more comforting in their stability to a new paddler but still be capable of handling bigger conditions.
There are a handful of older, shorter designs, like the Coaster, that had tremendously capable hulls but may have lacked some features of more current sea kayaks. They are still well-loved designs.
There is a newer batch of designs around 14 to 15 ft that have all the above sea kayak features in a compact package, like the Dagger Alchemy and the P&H Aries and Delphin. But these last are quite new.
Don’t mean to trash rec boats
If it were not for these short, wide boats the kayak industry probably couldn’t exist. To me. a “rec boat” with about 25 or more inches of beam, mostly around the cockpit and likely not much volume in the ends. In all cases, a rec boat’s cockpit is way too big and a sea coming over the bow can implode the sprayskirt and then the paddler has some serious things to consider at that very moment. I like short boats and rec boats are great for easy conditions such as small lakes, estuaries and salt marshes; any place where you won’t encounter the gnarly stuff. But then i would consider a small canoe like Placid Boatwork’s Spitfire which only weighs about half as much as a rec kayak of the same length. Jake
Also cockpit size
In my mind, one of the discriminators between a rec boat and a sea kayak is the size of the cockpit opening, and whether a skirt is considered a regular or only occasional piece of gear. The sea kayak having a small cockpit, obviously, and a skirt usually being worn.
Cape Falcon
By the way, you should take a look at the Cape Falcon F-1 kayak. It would do everything you’re looking for and then some, and is the size you’re looking for. Taking Brian’s class is a great way to learn how to make a SOF - plus your boat is done in a week. I love mine.
The more you know
Thanks to both of you. That helps add a bit of clarity not just to the definitions, but to things I need to take into account. I expect the majority of my time to be spent in the ocean, so I’ll make a point of ensuring I’ve got perimeter lines, etc.
– James
I understand
I’ve seldom had more fun than taking my friends out to go rent some sit on tops and paddle around by the beach. They’re slow, annoying to paddle, loud, but you know what, I can stand up on the things, and not even my clumsiest friends can capsize them. They’re great.
That being said, I want something easily driven, that I can enjoy my time in the ocean with. 
– James
Yost Boats
I built a Sea Flea 11 for my daughter and a Sea Tour 17R for myself. But, I’m also 100 pounds heavier than you.
You’d have to look at his designs. I’d say even email him - he’s been super helpful the times that I have or try posting on the Kayak Builders Bulletin Board (www.kayakforum.com).
Note re sea kayaks
All the safety features in the world aren’t any good if you haven’t practiced using them… make sure that whatever you build gets wet in a place where you can practice rescues etc first.
Delphin
anyone actually have one? no entries in the Reviews section yet. I wonder how much it actually weighs, and what the suggested paddler size/weight for it is
The long boat myth
is a myth.
But if you would not mind stretching your boat a little bit, and getting one of the best built boats out there, go get a QCC 600.
It’s 16 ft x 21 in.
Hoping to build
Thanks, but since I was a kid I’ve wanted to build a boat. Of course, when I was a kid, it was going to be a huge wooden schooner (and when I’m old and rich, it may be a large metal schooner, ala Dix Design) and as I grew up, I realized that my desire to sail around the world and even to live on a boat didn’t match with the realities of the situation. (of course, living aboard a 19’ boat in the winter probably wasn’t the best test ;)) but I’ve found that I’m happy living near the sea, and more than happy kayaking around, and occasionally crewing on other peoples yachts. Still, I’d like to be able to shove off in a boat I built, and building a skin on frame kayak seems like a simple and inexpensive way to get started. 
While I can certainly appreciate the beauty and functionality of factory made carbon fiber machines, I want to have something small, of wood and cloth, that I made. Yeah, it’s stupid, and romantic, but I should aspire to such descriptions myself
– James
Dix
James - your post reminded me that Dix designed a kayak kit - you might take a look at it:
http://www.unicornkayaks.com/dix-16-kayak.html
The kit seems kind of pricey, now that I look at it.
Short and skinny
What do you call skinny? Speaking generally shorter means (all thing similar) a boat needs to be wider keep it’s stability similar. Since you fairly new to kayaking skinny, meaning 20" or less at the water line your probably going to find pretty uncomfortable. Depends on what you call skinny.
My Curlew design is 15’ and 22 or 23" wide overall and a newbie might be little uncomfortable but after 30 minutes they adapt really quickly. It has a lower primary stability but the secondary comes in quick and it stiffens up.
Anyway, a truly short and skinny kayak is going to be rather slow and tippy. Not a popular combination for most people. And of course that is general speaking. I am sure are exceptions that. One of these days I going to design a 28" wide boat with low stability to just prove that width doesn’t meant it is stable.
Kudzu!
Hey,
You’re the Kudzu Craft guy? I think the Curlew is absolutely beautiful. I’m not sure if I’m splitting hairs on the size thing, I only know that the most comfortable kayak I’ve paddled thus far was 20" wide. I was told before I got into it that it was for advanced paddlers, and I probably wouldn’t be able to stay upright in it. I wouldn’t even have tried, but it was an open show, and I’d driven all the way out, tried out all the boats I was looking at, and no one was using it, it was sitting all alone on the beach, so I decided, why not? And I loved it.
I think a number of the kudzu designs are pretty, but the Curlew is one of my favorites. The idea of precut cross-sections sounds like it would make the project a bit nicer for a first kayak project too.
I fear right now I’m just stuck in this paralysis zone of knowing a few boats, all of which are within realistic tolerances of each other, and not really knowing which way to go.
skinny
One of the downsides of starting with a really skinny boat is you’ll spend a heck of alot of time swimming. Every demo session I’ve ever seen is done in calm water. While you obviously were able to keep it upright in calm water (which is a good trick) doing so in rough water is something else entirely. I’d think you’d be much happier with a slightly more stable boat at least to start with.
Bill H.
Different Kudzu
Yeah, I visit the ‘qajaqusa’ site now and again. Lo and behold there’s another kudzu who posts there quite a bit. Won’t be long and we’ll be spreading all over the place.
skinny boats
You may be an exception then. I have a neighborhood kid, well young man, that is just a natural. I started him in one of my stable boats and he asked if I had something livelier? Put him in another and he asked the same thing.
I have a skinny little SOF that I don’t like much. It’s very unstable and just uncomfortable due to it’s small size. It’s summer and water is warm so I put him in it. His third time in a boat and he took to it like a duck to water. Most people struggle with it but after a few minutes he was doing pretty much what he wanted. I was just amazed to watch him! He did finally turn it over after several paddles, sitting in the shallow water waiting on us.
So it is possible that you are an exception like him and will be fine in a narrow boat. But most people are not. So before you commit, you might want to try a few more really narrow boats.
Me too!
I came over here and there was a Kudzu on here too. We must be growing on people.