I’ve been trying for years to find a PFD for paddling that doesn’t ride up on me. Even the lower profile Astral YTV and several woman-specific vests have been too bulky and impossible to adjust for comfort and to sit above the coaming and skirt deck even in my lowest profile Greenland and LV kayaks.
I’m 5’ 5" but all leg: my upper body is more scaled to somebody 5’ 2" with a very short distance between my chin and waist. With a 40" chest I can’t wear a youth vest, which would not offer enough buoyancy for my 150 pound weight anyway.
i did notice that when i paddled in the UK during my trip there, for one of my outings with the local canoe and kayak club we realized that I’d left my USCG pfd that I brought from the US in the vehicle at our takeout during the shuttle so I borrowed one of the club’s loaner vests at the boathouse launch. It was a YAK brand (made in Australia) and fit me really well. Seems Euro vests are more streamlined (maybe because Europeans tend to be more streamlined than us Yanks.) Been looking for one ever since but could find no US vendor.
Then I stumbled on a sailing gear site that sells UK brand Rooster PFDs designed for sail racers. These are cropped somewhat so they don’t interfere with safety harnesses, apparently. Also quite sleek so there are few buckles and other protruberences that could catch on rigging hardware. Otherwise looks like any US Type 3 vest with adjustable girth and shoulder straps and a large pocket and full back. I ordered a woman’s medium and it fits me brilliantly.
But my state (like most in the US) requires using USCG approved PFDs. It appears that the major difference is the US cert is for “any marine vessel” and the UK cert is for “recreational boating”. The US rating is 70n standard for adults and the UK is 50n. Doesn’t concern me since I am near the low end for the weight class on the 70n anyway and I’m naturally very buoyant. And I kinda think that the “Fish Police” are not gonna make me take off my PFD to check the certification. But I wonder if anyone has ever run into an issue over using a Euro rated “buoyancy aid”, as they call them, in US waters?
And by the way, if you are a short or smaller person, or even just have difficulty getting zipped and buckled into the usual USCG designs, this one pulls easily over my head with a stretchy lower edge and has clever and quick concealed side adjustments with soft neoprene over them that doesn’t chafe.
Got it from Vela Sailing Supply in Texas and they shipped within 5 days.
Taking this out for the first test paddle Friday but am pretty sure that I won’t have it pushed up under my chin for a change.
I’ve been using the lower profile EU certified flotation devices for the past ten plus years for surfing. It helps to keep you afloat but not as much as USCG certified PFDs. Why I like it is that it DOESN’T ride up on me as shorter paddler and that, if needed, I can still duck dive under when I big dumping wave is about to crash on my head. But, this flotation assist is best for those who are comfortable in their swimming and being in the water. It won’t bring you up to the surface as fast nor as high, but it helps in a long swim to shore if one doesn’t panic (speaking from real life/real need experience).
Not saying you should ignore the rules, but in some 20+ years of padding I’ve never had anyone check the labels on my PFD. Usually the authorities are just happy someone is wearing a PFD.
I’m very comfortable in deep and even rough water – spent my childhood summers swimming and body surfing off the beaches of Lake Michigan and Massachusetts and have been certified in SCUBA as an adult – my high natural buoyancy means I don’t have to fight to stay on the surface, in fact I have to wear extra lead on my belt to achieve neutral buoyancy when I dive. In the SCUBA class exercises where we were supposed sit on the bottom of the deep end of the pool to practice removing all our gear and putting it back on, as soon as I dropped the belt I would start to rise like a bubble to the surface, especially when wearing my 3/4 wet suit. I can simply “stand” in the water without making the effort to tread water and my head stays above the surface. Don’t know why I am so “unsinkable” – possibly a combo of feeling at home in the water and being rather buxom. Human styrofoam!
I do think the sleekness of this vest will make it easier to scoot onto the kayak decks for cowboy self-rescues. All the zippers and geegaws on my other PFDs cause a lot of drag and even tended to catch on the rigging and hatch lids.
Unless the inspecting authority is familiar with the style of PFD, I can’t imagine that you would be cited. You are the one who ultimately must be comfortable, based on the location you’re paddling and the conditions. I believe 50n can be used for skiing. The problem is I believe it doesn’t keep your face out of water. You’re the best judge of your abilities and the circumstance of your paddling. I’m sure you go in rougher stuff than me. You still have the option to go back to the 70n when you anticipate rough conditions when further from the shore.
I’d watch from the sidelines and want to know what you girls do.
I have a female friend who is VERY top heavy and she went through 3 PFDs before she got one she can use and even that one is not perfect.
She’s asked me what I’d recommend but I have no idea who to recommend or what to say about this kind of issue. She’s 5’ 1" 138 -140 LBS and wears a F cup.
42" bust line
Short body, big around. Small back but big chest. So a XX man’s PFD fits around her but it’s too tall and the shorter sized ones made for kids and slimmer women …well … you get the point. She tells me the men’s sizes place her arms in the wrong place because her back is the size of most other women’s backs who are 5’ 1" tall
Anyone out there know what I should tell her and what company I should send her to?
At this point even European or Australian company’s are fine as long as they make a pfd that would truly fit her.
As you can see from the catalog photos I posted, unlike ski vests and other sailing specific ones I’ve seen, this one looks just like many overhead and side zip type 3 USCG models.
I’ll be paddling in a warm lake on Friday so I’ll wade out and test it when I’m done for the day – I suspect it will be more than sufficient to keep me bobbing.
This was the Aussie YAK model that I liked – borrowed for the canoe leg of our mixed craft group trip down the River Derwent. This Rooster I got is an even better fit.
I’m wondering if it would be possible (for your friend’s needs) to meld a small PFD back with a larger PFD front of the same model. Some of mine (I currently have 10 of them, some that I bought to try to find a good fit and others that came as packages with used boats I collected) are connected on the sides via buckles and at the shoulders the same way. I’ll take a look at them and see if it looks legit to just swap parts>
I’m pretty close to your friend’s size with 42" maximum chest measurement and DD cup volume, which is just one inch smaller than an F cup. Also a relatively narrow back and shoulders as well as a short torso.
Of the PFDs I have had to date, the most female-form-friendly til now has been the Astral Layla – for one thing it uses encapsulated kapok instead of the stiffer foam so it molds to a curvy chest better and more comfortably than my other vests and doesn’t feel like body armor. It still rides up in the back on me, though. They have changed the Layla design since I bought mine 10 years ago but it looks to be the same basic configuration and materials.
The older Lotus PFDs fit me better (the brand from which Astral arose). I do find that trying on the size below what is supposed to fit my chest girth results in a better fit. My chest is 42" but the S/M size that is supposed to be 34" to 40" is a better fit since the length is shorter and back is narrower. The side strap and hem strap adjustments add the needed girth.
I think the greatest problem facing paddlers come down to lack of confidence and panic. Experienced paddlers push the limit more than inexperienced paddlers, but they have more boat handling skills and have their witts about them. My fear is the unknown, such as a clueless half witt not seeing a 17 ft kayak and hitting me at speed, not going out and succumbing to rough conditions. If I do end up in the water, the last thing I want to chase and spend time putting on is the PFD, because my interest would be turned to recovering a $500 paddle. A 10 to 20 mph wind will cause things to disappear fast.
You should be level headed enough to know your limits.
THAT is an EXCELLENT idea.
I wonder if the manufacturer would do that for her at their shops?
I will tell her that tip tonight on the phone. She lives in Colorado and we only get to paddle with her 2-3 times a year, but she’s fought with this comfort issue for about 4 years now
THANKS SO MUCH. (I am sure Polly will be thankful so I extend the thanks for her now)
It would only work with certain models, I think – many styles have “permanently” sewn connections between the front and back, not just straps. I’m accustomed to sewing my own gear and modifying things (nothing is “permanent” as long as I have a seam ripper) so I don’t hesitate to remove stitching and add or subtract components from fabric items. I used to sew rock climbing and spelunking gear for friends so I know how to make durable, strong connections of fabric and webbing with the right gauges of needle and materials, like UV resistant poly upholstery thread. So it’s something that I would personally try.
But a shop will likely be hesitant to try such a modification, even if it could be accomplished without cutting a vest apart. They would likely be concerned about warranty and liability issues in modifying manufactured safety equipment.
ADDED: I went and looked at my PFDs. Both my Astral V8 and Astral Camino can have the front and back separated by unbuckling the shoulder and side straps. Same with the Stohlquist Glide which I bought 2 years ago because another p-commer suggested it might fit me. The Glide did not work for me but I may have gotten too large a size – my mistake for mail ordering but it was not stocked locally. The Glide does have an extra upper strap adjustment for a busty figure but the shoulder width did not work for me.
I talked to Polly and sent her a link to the Astral site. She loved the idea and so she’s going to contact them and ask questions, to see what they can do for her (if anything) and if they can’t or won’t do the mods themselves she says she knows a friend who can do such work.
Cool! She might want to take a look at the Rooster vest I bought, too, if she doesn’t get any help from the Astral dealer. I’ll be testing it tomorrow and will post how it works out. I see Sing weighed in too, explaining that he uses a similar lower profile sailing buoyancy aid for his coastal kayak surfing, both for its fit and function.
Polly needs less flotation then most people because she floats like a buoy (well — 2 buoys) So to stay warm in colder water she’s got a 4MM wet suit top from a business in Hawaii that custom tailored one to fit her shape. That top would probably be enough without a PFD in her case, but because high lakes often get wind driven waves she wants to have a PFD too. In the spring the water is very cold and none of us look forward to getting our heads in it, but with a 4MM wet suit top and a PFD she floats pretty high. She told me that there were times the PFDs were so uncomfortable she’d just go in the wet suit top, and put the PFD inside the bungees on the rear deck. My worry is about her trying to get the PFD on in very cold water when body movement is cut short for time as the muscles get sluggish. I am of the opinion that even if she floats like 2 empty gallon jugs (pun intended) it’s still wiser to hit the water ready then it is to try to get ready after you go into the water. In warm water we have more time, But sometimes high lakes are not very warm.
I had thought of an inflatable PFD for Polly. One that has the CO2 bottle to inflate it. If she were to wear the 4MM top over a 2MM full suit and an inflatable PFD I believe she’d be safe. I worry that such inflatable PFDs may get worn over time and leek air, but having not ever used one myself I don’t know how long lasting they are. I do know they are not cheep but neither is any good paddlers PFD.
Yeah, I have some of that same "double-barreled)"natural flotation advantage – there was a reason that they called those puffy-fronted military horse collar life vests “Mae Wests”.
I’d considered the inflatables, but dismissed them as too much maintenance hassle plus the cost of replacing the CO cartridges.
I confess I never used one, but I’ve had experiences with tools (pneumatic nail guns) that used the CO cartridges – the cartridges have a definite shelf life with those and I got so fed up with having dud cartridges that I gave away the tools to somebody who would use them more often than me and get full use out of a cell before it aged out. I just checked whether I was remembering correctly that the makers of inflatable PFD’s recommend replacing the cartridge and trigger apparatus every 3 to 5 years. Not a regimen or expense I care to take on. I can live with the relative awkwardness of a PFD – though hoping my outing tomorrow results in a pleasant outcome of this Euro sailing vest being both carefree and comfy.
By the way, I took some shots of myself wearing it this evening. The things always look great on the sleek catalog models but here is in on an average US female bod (including the 15 extra pounds of ballast I have put on from anxiety-snacking since last November.) Here are ventral, dorsal and profile views. The adjustable friction buckle straps in the shoulders and side pieces are encapsulated in very soft brushed surface stretchy neoprene so no chafing. You can see how short it is on my torso, even on me who is very short-waisted.
The Rooster also matches my favorite OR paddling hat and my favorite kayak (which is also my alma mater colors: GO PITT!)
I’m wearing a venerable Lotus PFD in this shot that I bought with my first sea kayak in 2002. Back fits OK but the front tends to push up under my chin, as you can see even though this is a low volume Greenland style boat.
Now those pictures are worth a thousand words. Polly had problems because the back of her PFDs were cut so the arm openings were not allowing her 100% movement without hitting. That pic from the back shows me exactly what she needs . She is small in every place but one. But getting the padded floats around her front meant she was buying XL size PFDs and then the backs are about 50% too wide. That with the fact that the XL size is simply too tall for her short body.
I will copy and paste those pics to an e-mail and send them to her if that’s OK with you.
Sure, go ahead – that’s why I posted the pics, so she could get a better idea of fit on someone closer to her size.
That one I am wearing is their size women’s M – though the “maximum” chest measurement is 105 cm (about 41") and I’m 42", it is not at all too snug. The lower top, flexible foam, stretchy side panels and generous armhole cut allow some lateral expansion of the biological “flotation” and make the front panel mold comfortably to the body. I do like the free movement of the arms it allows.
Comes in any color she’d want as long is that is either black or blue. I may stitch some reflective cloth striping on the back panel of mine to add visibility.
