Shorter may not = turnier...........

I test paddled a Hurricane Tampico 140S today and fully expected to like it and buy it, but was very surprised at how hard tracking and difficult to edge turn it was compared to my two feet longer Epic Touring Cruiser 16 (without the rudder deployed), which is relatively easily edge turned.

I didn’t buy the Tampico. I don’t need a hard tracking boat for the smallish lakes that I paddle.

For someone on more open waters, this boat may be just the ticket.

For the record, I’m 5’6" and 160 lbs.

Valid point, but at your weight, the 16’
kayak will be light on the water, while the shorter kayak will be more dug in.

The designer of the shorter kayak must have put tracking and cruising speed higher on the priority list than turning ability. That would be an easy mistake to make in wanting a shorter kayak that would sell.

My 14.5’ Necky Looksha Sport is delightfully maneuverable, even with my 220 pounds aboard. I removed the rudder because, as a ww paddler, I can’t see why anyone would want one on a short touring kayak. Just another do-dad to attract customers

Also, how much hull length was in the water for each boat?

Two thermoformed alternatives
Eddyline Samba and Delta 12S.

I’m enjoying my Delta 12.10 for paddling in and out of marsh coves. My two dislikes are the excessive width and depth, but the Delta 12S is a smaller boat and looks like it would fit you.

Look at the side view of that boat and others and many of those short beginner boats are dead flat with basically no rocker. My guess is this is because beginners who buy these boats have a hard time getting any boat to go straight and get frustrated with boats that turn too easily. I have heard this complaint many times volunteering at kayak demo days.

Hurricane designed the second gen
Tampicos (the 140S and 140L) to be trackier and less turnier. One look at the bow and the hull overall tells you that. The first gen 135S in particular had a different hull config and was the turniest of the four, such as they were. Pity they stopped making it.

as to why they did it, nick has it right. Easier for newbs to keep straight makes it more enjoyable to paddle. Nothing wrong with that given the market they’re aiming for. All the Tampicos are fun, light boats easy to paddle.

The Tampico 135L (discontinued) and 140L (sucessor) also lack thigh braces which is another clue that turning and edging are not the distinguishing qualities of these models. The S series (both of them) does have them. Having tried both the 135S and 140S I found the 135S more agile, and of course, with the thigh braces it could be rolled. I didn’t try to roll the 140S it was not fitted to me for that. It seemed blockier with a higher deck a lot more void next to and in front of the knees than the 135S.

Yanoer, I think you’d really enjoy the Eddyline Samba, it’s as playful as package as you’d want and should fit you well. Tom Derrer designed it for his own personal pleasure in playing in the waves. Turning w. speed was the goal. It gives up a little speed on the flats but no more than does, say, the Dagger Alchemy series. (The Dagger Alchemy S could go on your list as well). I’d be happy to add either one to my fleet.


– Last Updated: May-29-13 4:23 PM EST –

If you were in the NY area, I'd put you in my 13'9" Cape Falcon. It glides dead-straight, yet turns quickly when edged, it's kind of uncanny. It's a great quiet water boat, which kind of gets lost when looking at pictures of them in big crashing surf. I have a feeling if you paddled it you'd want to either steal it immediately or go out to Oregon and build one for yourself.

Oops, I forgot to make my point while bragging about the boat. As seen here, it doesn't have much rocker, rather it is the hard chines in the aft that allow the boat to carve surf and turn quickly. So rocker is important, but isn't the only think that can give maneuverability.

I really like the Fathom LV.
Haven’t tried the Samba.

Alchemy is too heavy and neither fits me right - L is too loose and S is to tight on the feet.

Perhaps it needs lots of edge
I paddled one in a pool back to back with my P&H Delphin, and I thought the Delphin was a lot more maneuverable. Not to mention, more comfortable for sitting, controlling, and rolling. I expected a lot more maneuverability from the F but it was not there. The boat was built in a class so it was built well (not some no-rocker fluke). You are right though, with the added width, it probably releases the ends nicely with a lot of strong edge. But with just a bit of edge - no as good for turning compared to the Delphin as I expected it to be for such a short boat that is intended for “play”.

The new Petrel Play might be of interest too to the OP - very maneuverable on the wave and off the wave, while tracking OK (e.g., needs good stroke, but won’t go off line on you on its own like some ill-designed maneuverable boats do).

Tampico 140 vs Excursion 140
I was in touch with Hurricane a while back. Their president, Steve Jordan, told me that the Tampico (I own a 140L) is the straighter tracker, and the Excursion 140 is more maneuverable. I haven’t paddled the Excursion so I can’t speak for it. I have no problems edging the Tampico though. I do wish it had thigh braces, and I unfortunately don’t fit in the S. I’m not sure which I’d choose had they both been available when I bought the Tampico. I’d like the maneuverabity of the Excursion, but straighter tracking (Steve called the Tampico ‘more efficient’) would be good over longer distances.

Fathom LV = great boat
my suggestions had more to do w. the 14 foot length since that is the length of the Tampico 140S.

If I had any nit to pick at all w. the Fathom and Fathom LV it’s that the back decks are kinda high for layback rolls. Wouldn’t matter for CtoC.

F-1 vs SC-1

– Last Updated: May-29-13 11:14 PM EST –

Well, FWIW mine is an SC-1, not an F-1; I don't think there's much of a difference, though. I've never paddled a Delphin, but they look nice. I'm sure you're right about their relative maneuverability in a pool, but that's not really representative of real paddling, is it? (I've never done a pool session).

I saw Brian paddle my boat hard, then peel off a big S-turn and a full 180 while the boat was gliding, so maybe having some forward speed should be part of the comparison. Maneuverability underway is a different animal than the ability to spin the boat while at rest, I think. Of course, Brian is a pretty amazing paddler, so maybe my perception is skewed by remembering his skill on edge.

Unfortunately - only in the pool :frowning:
Pool sessions are fun in the cold months - I try to go to a half dozen each year. I find them very useful for improving my rolling technique in clean, warm, clear water. While I do roll in the winter if I have to (I paddled mostly white water in the cold months during the past couple of years, just happens to be closer to where I live), I generally prefer not to spend too much time underwater in freezing conditions - my forehead does not like it…

And yes, can’t tell too much about a boat from a pool session in someone else’s boat…

The Walrus Griffin looks sporty.

I wonder how easily it is edge turned?

Another short kayak that doesn’t edge turn easily is the Eddyline Merlin LT. Not much turnier than the Nighthawk 16. I owned them both for a short time. Too hard tracking for my uses on small bodies of water.

Tampicos, Expeditions, and
now Excursions. imo Hurricane is building models w. a lot of overlap and the name confusion between the Expedition and the Excursion is not helping.

To me they are all on the trackier side of the continuum.