technique
First learn technique then train. Counter productive doing it the other way around.
If you’re having issues with balance, you definitely need to learn technique and have fun paddling first. Training for a boat you can’t balance in doesn’t do much of anything.
Bill H.
That’s The Trouble
You’re stuck in the same rut and will never improve by paddling “stable” kayaks. Save the “stability before ability” sales pitch for the 40 and over set who can afford to buy a new “stable” kayak every year and think they’re improving. If you can find an Olympic K-1 to paddle, then you’re in business. Find someone who’ll show you how to bail it after a capsize and give you pointers. The rest is up to you. Use whatever paddle is convenient or available. You can switch later to a wing, etc. But for now old style Olympic flat blades are fine, because you can easily paddle forward, backwards and sideways with them and do a lot of fool around strokes too in developing your proprioception.
Right now, let your shoulders heal. Maybe get them checked for impingement or some other ailment?
?
– Last Updated: Jan-25-16 9:36 AM EST –
Look over 'anatomy shoulder' in Google Images...locate the pain.
Is pain in the joint, glenohumorous or along the arm, back, clavicle, under scapula ?
In the joint ? Stop, visit DR.
Along arm maybe tendonitis. Stop see DR.
SCAPULA ? Stop. Pulled muscle. Rest. stretch infrascapularis when rested.
Clavicle ? DR.
TRY no red meat for 3 weeks
Lay flat on back sleeping. Shoulders flat, arms on flat in comfortable position.
No exercise. Read abt stretching ex at EXRX.COM n library but rest for 2-3 weeks.
After resting week, try 3-4 days glucosamine to judge effect.
Increased mobility in Glen joint would indicate prob there.
I have a 'hitch' in my right deltoid jolting short sharp pain from a throwing motion. Muscle pull ? Slow to heal.
Turned my back on the ocean, wave slammed scapula. No throw motion for 6 months.
One acute tendonitis from wrist weights jogging: 3 months. Seizure level sharp pain.
Basic injuries.
Know RICE ? Search: RICE injury
Since you picked me up on it and said
a sixteen year older shouldn’t be taking ibuprofen;
I’ll complete disagree with you and say that you are WRONG !
I’ll stand by what I said, and you might get your facts together before making a false statement
Enough said on my part!
Jack L
Feel better?
You can get off my leg now if your done.
I’ll stand by what I said. A 16 year old shouldn’t be taking painkillers to train.
gym is not
– Last Updated: Jan-25-16 9:38 AM EST –
on the water. The difference between the two motions prob either caused or increased an existing problem.
Maybe in the glenohumerous. or tendon or muscle 'pull'
different motions use different muscle/tendon/joint positions. If you build strength for one motion the buildup may decrease mobility in a similar but different motion. Increased pressure in this conflict may produce pain or damage.
Lot of this is based on the push pull of adjacent muscle sets for leveraging strength.
Usually stretching/warmup reduces the problem for not weight training people.
The vastus medialus on the inside thigh is a common muscle example. The vastus type muscles position the knee joint/knee cap to hinge effectively without wear giving power. Apparently the larger population does nt properly exercise the vastus medialus with increased knee injuries.
Tendon/ligament/bursa positions n the knee are 'worn in'. When knee, with an incorrectly positioned knee hinge for max power without injury' is forced to work harder, the hinge slips out of the worn pathways and malfunctions. Or 'burns': knee burn is common when asking knee to repeat new cycling motions over distance. the knee is breaking in to a new motion n that 'burns'
A sport example in bicycling. All cycling is divided into 3 parts: flatland time trialers, mountain hill climbers and MTB riders. 3 different muscle training groups.
Few thoughts
Sounds strikingly similar to what I went through last year.
I could paddle, even race with the injury, but it got increasingly worse; to the point that I almost abandoned during an 8 miler-definitely slowed me down.
I ended up getting pretty poor results throughout 2015. I wish I would have caught it before summer.
It was more or less a dull aching pain that would increase the longer I paddled at threshold speed.
My diagnosis was Rotator cuff strain and bursitis due to overuse.
2 weeks of Ibuprofen and no paddling. Was given exercises as physical therapy.
Here are the exercises. You should notice marked improvement.
http://www.usawildwater.com/training/shoulder.pdf
As a paddler and especially a racer you should absolutely include these exercises before and after you train.
I do them now as preventative maintenance. It’s worth it if you care about being at your best.
That being said-of course, you should see a DR for verification and treatment. I personally prefer a D.O.
Mountain Paddler
http://www.surfskinews.com/
http://www.surfskisyndicate.com/
please see a physical therapist
– Last Updated: Jan-25-16 11:31 AM EST –
GBG is right, people will give you personal anecdotal feedback on this that may or may not help.
Bottom line is that at your age paddling should not hurt other than typical exercise fatigue.
Bottom line is that a 16 year-old should not have to rely on pain killers to train. I did serious damage to my knees doing exactly this in college. I'd recommend you run as fast as you can from any advice saying that the pain and regular ibuprofen or other NSAID use is acceptable at your age. You can do damage to your body and overuse of NSAIDS is bad for your liver.
The pain could be from overuse. The pain could be from incorrect form. Or the pain could be from gym exercise, I completely agree on the feedback Clyde provided regarding typical gym exercise targeting only one muscle or muscle group. IMO gym exercise of this sort is the old way and is only for bodybuilders.
What PT may do, though, is give you more muscle-specific exercises to reinforce and counterbalance those you've been building.
Exercise your judgment instead
– Last Updated: Jan-25-16 1:23 PM EST –
Pain from repetitive motions at age 16 is a sign to stop doing that motion until it heals.
In the meantime, I agree with slushpaddler that seeing a physical therapist probably will help. You will have to go to your primary care physician or a physician's assistant first, though, just to be allowed to start PT. I went through this process a few months ago. PT are not allowed to do therapy without that hoop being jumped first. In my case, I stopped in with a PT I had seen previously for a different injury, and he told me, based on my description of symptoms, that PT could help. But I still had to see a doc first.
PT use a variety of techniques to help you heal. Unlike just getting a cortisone shot or taking pills, you recover with some effort on your part as well (home exercises between the therapy sessions). There will likely be some light weight training involved, at the PT office, NOT in a regular gym. They will correct improper body mechanics and posture. You might be advised to take some antiflammatories at first, but this should be done only if the pain exists at other times besides doing what triggered it, or if keeps you from sleeping.
I disagree with the comments about isolating muscles in weight training. In the 1980s I began Nautilus training for offseason bike race conditioning. A side effect was that, in a few years, an old shoulder injury felt much, much better. A couple of months ago I told my PT about this, and he said he liked those Nautilus machines, which I have not seen in ages. They allowed concentrating on weak muscle instead of training it plus all the "helpers". Sometimes you have to strengthen a muscle that has not been worked in the right balance with surrounding muscles and ligaments. That is what isolating exercises do. It is not the same as weight training when everything is in good balance and correct biomechanics have been maintained.
One of the hardest things at any age, but especially when young or middle-aged, is to stop "testing" an injured part. By the time you get old, you have learned that that slows the healing process. But it is soooo tempting to see if maybe that pain went away miraculously! Nope. Give it a rest and careful rehab instead.
Good luck, and post back here after you go to the doc!
BTW, exercising judgment sometimes is the hardest thing to do.
true
One has to get a referral from one’s primary care physician. A good thing to remind your doctor of is how active you are and that you want to continue to be active. Maybe a given for a 16 year old but still…
My comments regarding gym and muscle isolation probably should be tempered. I’m thinking of the development of some muscle groups at the expense of others. PT sometimes focuses on development of those complementary muscles.
Problem solved
I have just have returned from the doctors and he says its just a small strain on the upper back muscle and that my shoulders as just sore from the sudden increase of force because i haven’t paddled in months which the ache has gone now (1 day later).
i have been told to continue my training with light weights and to use pain killers before i paddle while the upper back muscle recovers.
i would like to say thank you to everyone who gave me advice.
Internet diagnosis,
and internet treatment suggestions should all be viewed with suspicion.
Even the old RICE advice has been called to question by up to date professionals.
If the pain persists, see your GP and be sure to describe your activity that causes the pain thoroughly - then go from there. If he sends you to PT, make sure the PT understands your activity thoroughly as well.
Boat stability
When i say i was using a stable boat it was due to the river being slightly flooded and an increased flow and i was just getting back into things after a winter out.
The boat is not that stable really as i was paddling a cougar (the boat- http://marsport.co.uk/racingcanoes.aspx?item=5&m=r&c=0)
which is stability 2/10 so it is quite un-stable and most of the time i paddle a plastex athena which is about 1/10 so these boats are really stable just more than usual
I think most of my technique is quite good as we have coaches and apart from by legs my upper body movement is good but not perfect but that just comes with time.
thanks for the advice
i am ok
I have paddled these boats last year with great fun and i am stable in them just flooded water so picked a smaller boat with additional stablity see post above about the boats used
Cougar 2/10 stabilty and plastex athena /10 stability - raced both boats in bad conditions
Direct Access at State Level
– Last Updated: Jan-25-16 2:30 PM EST –
"Direct access means the removal of the physician referral mandated by state law to access physical therapists' services for evaluation and treatment. Every state, the District of Columbia, and the US Virgin Islands allow for evaluation and some form of treatment without physician referral. However, many of those states continue to impose arbitrary restrictions on direct access, or only allow for treatment without referral under very limited circumstances. Be sure to check this summary of the various state direct access laws."
The referenced PDF summary can be found at: http://www.apta.org/StateIssues/DirectAccess/FAQs/
depending on your relationship with your
primary, it’s still a great place to start. They know your exercise habits and health history and can help keep you on the right track.
OTOH it’s good to know this option exists.
Change might be coming
My PT said in five yrs or so we might be able to go directly to PT.
Glad to hear that.
And best wishes for a great season of racing this summer.
injury
Well it’s good that there’s no big injury, but still if you’re not using your legs, you’re not using the biggest muscles in your body. Paddling is not all about upper body strength. Not even close.
If you’re not using your legs you’re trying to push the boat around with your butt, not a great way to move anything.
Bill H.
Fine: Do What the Doctor Says
For I saw the kayaks you’re paddling and perhaps 90% of us here probably couldn’t paddle any of them successfully. You’re quite advance to be able to do so and it is refreshing to have you discuss your pain on this site. But now, having a better understanding about your paddling activity, may I suggest the following:
- Warm up thoroughly before doing your sprint interval pieces.
- Immediately after weight training, get in your kayak and go paddle easy and lightly for 20 minutes or so to refamiliarize your body with the stroke.
- For stability and balance, don’t neglect the gluteals, especially the gluteus medius.
- Install a swivel seat in your kayak.
- Use a Stairmaster machine to build up your shoulders (I got kicked out of 24 Hours Fitness Waikiki for doing so).
- And the ultimate weight trainer for paddlers has got to be KayakPro’s CatchForce machine, which I’m using now.