Sit in vs Sit on top

I do not recall any dealings with you
But I do buy & sell on ebay.

EBay the great equalizer it seems
I wondered - since you only started paddling in a kayak a couple of weeks ago per another post. But at some point we’ll meet on EBay…

One v. important consideration…
is that a 14 y.o. boy will have more fun in an SOT. He will treat it like a boat, a log, a diving platform, a lounge chair. He will paddle it, jump off it, stand up in it. In short, he will play, which is nature’s way of educating the young in the skills they need. My 8 y.o. has a 14’ SOT and he just enjoys goofing around in it – he doesn’t even realize that he is developing boat sense.

Can’t agree more
Trust me, I can hear you. I might end up with one of each as some users have suggested; we are close to the ocean and it is mostly warm year round, the SOT makes sense and does it more considering your point, wich is the whole purpose.

I bought my 9 & 12 year old grandsons Cobra Wave surf kayaks. They are 10.5’x22"x35 lbs and have twin skegs. The older boy has a blast playing on his. The younger one likes the boat but is lazy. The older one heads for the wakes, jumps off, climbs back on and generally plays. The boats are wet. My personal SOTs are pretty dry.

Difficulty with self rescue issue
People who are likely to have the most difficulty (for whatever reason) with self and assisted rescue techniques and/or have least interest in learning same (scary thing being these are all to often often one in the same) are also those who tend to be most attracted to and defensive of SOT (which I think are great for many uses - but not for avoiding basic skills).

Taken together this is a bad mix as they tend to assume the SOT has them covered (even though few really check to see what they can actually do with one - or give as much thought to potential issues arising as they otherwise might with a close cockpit kayak).

Those of you who are versed in rough water remounts on your SOTs know what I’m talking about and will not take any of the above personally, or as anything against SOT performance/use.

Learn to roll, problem solved.
Rolling is one of those basic skill that is fun and easy. There are SO many ways to roll it is hard to imagine that you can’t find one that will work for you.

If you have to try to get back on a SOT, you are soaking wet and exposed to the elements. Rolling you are not.

SOTs Are NOT colder then SINKS. In a Sink you are surrounded by and or sitting on COLD water, its doesn’t take long for the cold to creep in. On a SOT your are insulated by the boat and the air pocket. The only thing a SINK does better is protect your lower body from the wind, but that’s not a big issue if you dress for it.

Not wrong in this COLD region

– Last Updated: Jan-19-07 8:13 PM EST –

Since you live in SC, I seriously question that the lack of difference you perceive there applies to colder and windier areas. I did mention *same level of insulation* under the drysuit etc. for a given air temp and water temp when contrasting SOT to SINK.

Another thing is that my SINKs have foam seats, so not only am I not sitting in a puddle of ice water, I am insulated from it by BOTH hull and foam. YOUR results may be different. Your climate most definitely is very much milder.

BTW, you said The only thing a SINK does better is protect your lower body from the wind, but that’s not a big issue if you dress for it. which only confirms my original statement. The lower body IS where the hull protection differs. I sure didn't say that a SINK protects the upper body.

hehehe - Not a big issue if you dress…
Not even thinking about boating for a moment, that definitely depends on how cold it gets, but when it’s cold and windy, or even just cool and windy, it’s darned nice to have a windbreak. Taking it up a notch to illustrate the point, when I go ice fishing I can dress like the Michelin man and even then I won’t stay warm very long without a windbreak. Surely the same principle applies to kayaking.

Yeah I LIVE in SC, but I have this contraption called a Suburban that allows me to travel to distant lands like Boston & New York etc etc… 18 degrees is 18 degrees no mater where you paddle. You can’t tell me that you don’t feel the COLD water through your yack haul. I dress for the weather/water not the boat.

How about some reverse logic…
As we all know, a SOT is a wetter ride than a SINK. In cold conditions, a SOT paddler will be more prepared for the conditions if for no other reason than to keep warm & dry. Many SINK paddlers under dress for the conditions they paddle in because they are generally drier and not as exposed to the wind. My conclusion is a SOT paddler is usually more prepared to paddle in cold conditions than an average SINK paddler and is therefore safer.

I’m sure we can all agree with this. LOL!

I have both
While everyone argues to death the safety issues here’s my opinion of my OK Scrambler (SOT) v.s. OT Loon 138 (sink):

The Scrambler is lighter and much easier to toss on top of my truck. It is loads of fun for playing around on. It’s easy to cool of on a hot summer day kicking back with feet in the water. I’ve used it in the local WW park to blast down some easy rapids at low water levels. Sometimes I even make the whole run without falling off.

The Loon is more of a freighter. It rides smooth and would be difficult to tip in flat water. I have kept warm on late autumn full moon paddles with a spray skirt installed. It’s a nice stable platform for fishing, bird watching, or just drifting and lillydipping. I’ve also had good success paddling to safety when afternoon T-storms and wind rough things up.

As stated by someone else, for a kid I would lean toward the SOT. It’s just more fun.

Yes, lack of wind/water protection

– Last Updated: Jan-22-07 2:10 PM EST –

in a SOT is a factor. Which is what I said in the first post.

I dress for what boat I'm in, which takes into account water and air temp. It's not mutually exclusive, as swedge implies. If I dressed for the SINK as heavily as I do in the SOT, I'd be overheating. That makes as much sense as dressing the same for driving a car in winter as for motorcycling in winter.

My thoughts on sink vs sot:

Imagine what if I am in alaska big icy windy bay, i flip.

in the sot I flop back on, and paddle away to warm up. In the sink, water got in my ear throwing off my balance, boink on my head what was that?, Ok my hands aren’t working right, I wet exit. I am cold!

truth be told I was in an icy river in maryland, so my car heater was not far, but what if I was in a large lake, and I couldn’t just collect my gear and walk away?

I own a sink and a sot, I only flip the sot on purpose when its hot, its very stable.

I love my sot, after many years of the flipper( sink boat). I am totally convinced a good sot is safer for me. Also, you can spend extra money on things other than pool rolling sessions, skirts, sponsons, etc. My vote is for sot boat.

“water got in my ear throwing off my balance, boink on my head what was that?, Ok my hands aren’t working right, I wet exit. I am cold!”

This section has little to do with SOT vs. SINK.

Nothing about an SOT keep water out of your ears (if you over and end up in the water and manage to keep head out - conditions aren’t very rough).

Nothing about and SOT keeps you hands working better.

Nothing about an SOT keeps you warmer.

Nothing about an SOT makes a wet exit less likely (though SINKS do tend to offer better options to recover without exiting -like rolling - which is a lot harder to do with SOT/thigh straps/lap belt). Rolling gets you up, out of the water, and back on your way faster than SOT scramble - without full body immersion, and with less chance of losing the kayak or gear.

I have both too.

Loony comparison
Large cockpit rec boats should not be factored into this SINK/SOT discussion. They are notoriously poor for rescue/recovery without modification/added gear. Makes them essentially more like open canoes for rescue/safety issues.

Pretty easy to argue that most rec boats would best be replaced by SOTs. That does not make SOTs “safer” than closed deck sea kayaks.

The point i was trying to make is that you STILL have to dress warmly even if you are in a sink. I have paddled my QCC on some cold mountain lakes and had condensation forming on the inside of the hull. I could also feel the cold water through the hull. On a SOT you don’t have that problem, but you are more exposed to spray & wind. I have all 3 types of boats. SOTS Sinks and a “Decked Canoe’ or the plastic Kruger!!! As I like to call it… SOTS are not just summer toys.

It’s an argument that will never be resolved. Part of the problem is that on most kayak fishing sites they refer to “sinks” as the recreational type with big open cockpits and no bulkhead at bow and one at stern. So it is what most compare to the SOT in regards to safety. If given the option of safety for paddling one of those rec “sinks” and a rec SOT I’d go with the SOT.

However, you and I know that a proper seakayak and the right skills will be safer than any one of the short and fat SOT’s being used for fishing, with the exception of a few models and some of the designs coming out of South Africa like Kaskazi for example.