Used harmony skid plate kit last weekend on royalex old town, epoxy /resin hardened before I was finished, can I get something from Home Depot or Lowe’s to finish job or is the harmony materials a better/specific type only for the royalex. Any advice appreciated.
West System Epoxy
– Last Updated: Sep-09-14 5:35 PM EST –
If you just ran out of time and the epoxy got too hard to work with, you can go to West Marine and pick up a small set of 105 resin and hardener. I think it still comes in a quart or smaller size if you don't need very much.
I have used the two part slower curing epoxy that you can pick up at any Home Improvement store for field repairs and its ok, but the West is easier to work with. The West takes quite a long time to set up, more time than it takes to set two skid plates.
I agree -
get some west system epoxy. West Marine carries it if you have one in your area.
Use G Flex epoxy
A quart of West Systems 105 resin and 206 hardener is going to set you back more than $50 and you will need mini pumps to get the mix ratio right which will be an additional expense.
http://www.nrs.com/product/2270/gflex-650-8-epoxy-adhesive
Get West Systems G Flex epoxy instead. You can get 4 oz of resin and 4 oz of hardener for well under half what you would pay for 105/206 and it will be plenty to do a pair of skid plates. Furthermore, it is formulated to bond better to plastics, including Royalex, the cured epoxy has a modulus of elasticity that better matches that of Royalex resulting in less compliance mismatch, and you can mix resin and hardener 1:1 by volume, by eye, without the need for mini pumps.
vinyl
the outer skin of your boat is vinyl.
G flex has a vinyl/Kevlar epoxy with a different number than the stock shelf G flex. Last I searched for that.
The 650 bought in Seattle has instructions to not use 650 on vinyl.
There is a heated discussion on this topic in Paddlenet if you search for that.
I used a Wenonah skid kit on a Rendezvous with solid results during warm desert weather. I assume that was the vinyl specific G Flex.
there is no vinyl specific G Flex
– Last Updated: Sep-10-14 6:42 AM EST –
There is G Flex 650 which is the plain resin and hardener and there is 655 which is prethickened. The only difference is that colloidal silica has been added to the 655. The only difference in unthickened G Flex is the quantity packaged.
Some people remove the outer vinyl skin of Royalex by sanding, grinding, or scraping allowing bonding directly to the ABS and this is probably a good idea if it is not too difficult.
I have applied over two dozen skid plates to Royalex canoes using G Flex. Most of these were applied to livery canoes in which some of the vinyl had been abraded off the Royalex, but not over the whole area the skid plate covered. I made no real attempt to remove all remaining vinyl.
In all instances I thoroughly roughed up any intact vinyl with 80 grit sandpaper before cleaning the hull. None of these skid plates have delaminated from the areas that still had vinyl and some are now years old.
In addition, I know of many whitewater boaters who have used G Flex to attache vinyl, hypalon, or PVC D ring patches to the interior of their Royalex canoes, which is also a vinyl covered surface, and they report excellent results.
So in my mind that answers the question as to whether or not G Flex bonds to vinyl.
works good
However, notice the instructions do not recommend vinyl.
Damp white oak to polyethylene but not vinyl.
If my memory is inaccurate as it is, the vinyl G Flex is 650-K with aluminum.
I do remember the search time for sorting thru available G Flex information went into abt an hour.
G Flex kits
– Last Updated: Sep-11-14 8:34 AM EST –
Just because West Systems does not include adhesion data for G Flex for a particular substance does not mean G Flex will not bond to it.
Here is a pnet thread that touches on whether G Flex works on vinyl:
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=1408769
Here is a test of various D ring patches bonded to HDPE (a tough plastic to bond to) using G Flex:
http://www.epoxyworks.com/26/pdf/D-ring_Pads_Gflex.pdf
The nomenclature for G Flex packaging is as follows:
650 denotes unthickened resin and hardener that comes in a cylindrical, clear plastic squeeze bottle of various sizes.
655 denotes thickened resin and hardener that comes in toothpaste style tubes.
The -K designation after either 650 or 655 denotes a kit which includes extras in addition to the resin and hardener. For example, 650-8 denotes 4 ounces of unthickened G Flex resin and hardener with no extras.
The original 650-K kit looked like this:
http://www.riversports.com/rs/product_detail/3354/GFlex-Epoxy-Repair-Kit
For some reason, West System changed the packaging so it now reads Aluminum Boat Repair Kit:
http://www.nrs.com/product/2271/gflex-650-k-epoxy-repair-kit
It is exactly the same stuff as before. There is no aluminum in any type of G Flex. And both 650 and 655 will bond to vinyl.
here we go…
– Last Updated: Sep-11-14 12:00 PM EST –
ok ok....but the recommendations DO NOT include vinyl.
I would enjoy telling you the aluminum kit suggests vinyl but I forgot this critical data...for the conversation.
How do you know the aluminum kit is not different from basic 650 ? Because West branded the kit for aluminum ?
My uniformed take on the is vinyl's wide spread surface characteristics as applied to specific uses...one excresence is flexible...another mix is hard.
So the surfaces are different yet we ask one glue to cover a lot of, errrr, vinyl
Vinyl's variability is due to a magic word !
PLASTICIZERS
Variable, and off course uncontrolled by West, use ages of PLASTICIZERS result in a wide variey of oozes lying and excreted from the vinyl 'solid'
The recent appearance of polyethylene epoxies at WalMart suggest advances for adhesion on a wider variety of surfaces is in progress.
Aluminum has a trick surface bonding to 02 atoms creating a surface skin of aluminum oxide. There are TYPES of aluminum treated to not form oxides there made weldable or solderable without flux.
So why did West offer an epoxy for aluminum and not add the word aluminum to the list of damp woods and water jug material ?
Severalyears ago Loctite's were not complete in reacting with stainless steel, non ferrous metals. Loctite found something to mix in overcoming their problem of not having ferrous ions for hardening Loctite.
I assumed West found an additive offering billions of chemical union sites in addition to the standard mix thus adding grip into and beyond the ooze.
The G Bro are missing neurons from exposure ?
Maybe I miss the point but only pointing out to the OP that some research maybe necessary for learning correct applications data from West and bloggers.
Call Old Town
I’d simply call Old Town and ask - especially where the Royalex material is concerned. You’re likely to not get an educated answer at the local Homey or Lowe’s.
The people at Old Town are really friendly and helpful.
From somewhere on Colorado’s Continental Divide…
fotomatt
I have excellent results from G-flex on
vinyl. Still, because the vinyl/ABS bond is not very strong, I usually remove the vinyl with a low angle chisel (easiest).