I stuffed it with a sleeping bag and sloshed it around the bathtub for five minutes. I forced it under water several times, including the roll top. If it were just bobbing on its own, the roll top would never go under water. Of course, in surf, it would get dunked all over.
Result -- a couple tablespoons of water in the outer compartment, and a one-foot long damp edge on the bag. But I could have sealed the inner bag better. This is acceptable performance for a dry bag. I bet most would not do any better.
The secret is cinching the inner stuff sack before compressing, which leaves the roll top lots of room to make a good seal. Without that, it's as you describe -- impossible to seal properly. None of the reviews of the Hydroseal that I found mentioned the inner sack and cinch -- I bet everybody misses it.
I have seen complaints that the rubberized coating can deteriorate and crack over time, compromising the water barrier. If the bag lasts 5 years at $12, that's fine with me. Mine is 3-4 and going strong.
Granite Gear As witnessed by the many replies you’ve received already there are many ways to compress a sleeping bag to insure that it stays dry. Here’s my approach:
To achieve a small sleeping bag bundle I start with a down bag. Synthetic bags will not squish as small as a down bag and they are considerably heavier. While no other sleeping bag insulation material is as light-weight or will compress as small as down it’s important to remember that down bags are a miserable thing to face if they get wet and they take a long time to dry out once wet. Reasonable care should be taken to insure that you get where you’re going with a completely dry sleeping bag every time.
My packing procedure is as follows: first I put the sleeping bag into a water resistant nylon stuff sack, then I stuff that into a “nearly waterproof” heavy-duty compression bag, this in turn is then put into a dry bag such as a Seal-Line or NRS (along with other gear). This approach offers 3 levels of redundancy… Probably over-kill, but my sleeping bags do not get wet while on the trail or on the water – no matter what.
I bought Granite Gear compression sacks sized to fit our down sleeping bags. GG offers a few different lines and styles of packing bags; I went for the “Drylite Rock Solid”. Their “large” easily fits any of our down sleeping bags with room to spare. I can easily reduce a down bag to a 9 inch sphere. But I’m sure I could have easily fit each of our down bags into the “medium” size GG bags which would have made the compressed size an 8”sphere. http://www.granitegear.com/products/packing_systems/factory_seam_sealed/drylite_rock_solid/index.html
At about $30 each the Granite Gear compression bags are very reasonably priced, are very light-weight, are very well made and should last many, many years.
pump sack - dry bag The stuff sack/pump sack for the exped is indeed a dry bag. If my hatches leaked I would probably put it in a thin dry bag, I never bother, I just toss it into the hatches.
I own the large DAM Kim has the small one, next time I see you I’ll bring them by, maybe the nspn holiday party?
The cost of $140 isn’t too bad when you compare it to something like the Termarest pro light for women, which is $90, less of on R value, and less comforable.
What I like "to compress a standard stuff sack with a cap, put that inside a strapless, valved bag"
Yep. That’s what I do.
Plus, I now have the flexibility to use the stuff sack when backpacking, even car camping in a my little car. And the dry bag can be used for keeping my electronic gear dry on non-camping trips.
I can see 3-5 years down the road I’ll have gazzilion dry bags and compression sags for every size and functionality available. But for now, I can’t stomach the outlay of moeny for these special purpose bags all at once. So I go the route of a small collection of single function bags, mixed and matched to achieve the same result.
Thanks for the detailed recipe for the way you pack your bags... sounds very nice. I don't know what level down bag you have, but I'm sure it's better than our Kelty Clear Creek synthetics, rated at 20F. But we are just 3-season campers.
Anyway, with your sizing information, against my synthetic bag packed tightly into an OR Hydroseal Compression Sack (#2), I get...
* Your down bag into a 9" sphere = about 380 cu in
* My synthetic into an 8 x 10 cylinder = about 500 cu in
Yes, you could get your sphere a bit smaller, but my cylinder is really between 9" and 10". So your package is definitely smaller, but not hugely so. That gives me hope.
I will think about down. My fear is that there are other ways to get a bag wet than in the boat, such as in heavy rain if something goes wrong with the tent. Also, the down may get damp if the rain goes on, even without an actual dousing, and that compromises insulation. So I've been a synthetics fan for years, and my old down bag rarely goes out anymore.
... two REI Kite-Core 1.5 pads at $65 each. They are the same comfort (ok, but not great) as our old thermarests, but pack into half the size. That's one transition from canoe to kayak camping we made.
So, anybody want two REI Lite-Core 1.5 pads -- used once -- for less than $65? I'd take $55 at this point.
No Problem I haven’t had any problems keeping my sleeping bags dry. My biggest problem was stuffing a bulky bag into a not so big hatch. I solved that by stuffing the dry bag while the bottom was already in the hatch.
The key to keeping your bag dry is storing it with the seal upright. That way water is least likely to ever reach the seal. When packing any boat with waterproof bags place the seal in a way that best sheds water.
Testing a dry bag in a bath tub will give you false results. Water slowly works its way into a seal. Holding a dry bag underwater creates pressure that helps push water out. It’s water resting in the crease of the rolled seal that’s the problem.
Down/synthetics I go for down when I do wilderness canoe tripping because it’s light-weight and compresses better than synthetics, not really its four-season capability. It’s a matter of size and weight. Our wilderness adventures involve some long portages – every ounce adds up on the trail. The smaller every item in a load can be compressed and the less it weighs the fewer portage packs one needs. Yes, it is important to keep a down bag absolutely dry. But it’s also important to keep your clothes and your food dry. That’s all easy enough to do even if you’re traveling and camping in the rain day after day. It takes planning, proper gearing and a certain mindset, but it all doable and not that hard. Some things that help maintain dryness while tripping are: a good quality (periodically re-sealed) tent with a “bathtub” floor, a proper footprint for the tent, a light-weight nylon waterproof rain tarp for cooking and lounging in, properly lined portage bags (for canoeists) and/or dry bags (for canoes or kayakers).
FWIW, I’ve been at this a long time… I also have synthetic bags that we use when we car-camp and space/weight is not much of an issue. Actually we have two different sets of camping gear – one for car camping (like State Parks, etc) and another for wilderness canoe tripping/backpacking. When we just do the parks or go someplace accessible by a car it’s kind of nice to bring along the full regalia of two-burner Coleman stoves, gas lanterns, big roomy tents and hard-shell coolers, synthetic sleeping bags, etc. Heck I even bring a regulation pillow along sometimes when we car-camp… But on the trail – lightness and small size is key. The less you have to shoulder the freer you are to go deeper into the wilderness. Again, every ounce adds up on the trail.
But that’s just my two cents worth, what works for me. Randall
* Only two compression straps ==> it curled up into a kind of fetal form rather than a straight cylinder
* not a valve but an opening with a hinged plug, which I found very difficult to secure
* have to stuff the sleeping bag down in the sack far enough to get room for a good roll on top, but no way to hold the sleeping bag there while you roll
* material is rather stiff and hard to work with
Now that I know how to use it, I like the OR HydroSeal Compression sack better for a sleeping bag, fleece clothes or anything soft that needs to be compressed significantly.
In general, I'm finding Seal Line products to be not well designed and engineered. Besides the Black Canyon compression sack, their map cases are cloudy and the zippers inevitably fail way before they should; their yellow dry bags with the mesh button valves do not work very well -- the valves are balky and easily blocked by clothes or other soft items.
OR Hydroseal Its easy to roll up the outer sack if you have cinched the inner one down tight. I often push on the sack to expell all the air from the outer sack too prior to rolling.
I find that if I take the time to insert the sleeping bag ALL THE WAY DOWN it packs very small.
I dont know how many years I will get out of it though. I have packed and unpacked it 100 times so far.
Different synthetics I used the Black Canyon dry bag on a month-long trip in SE AK, among other trips. No leaks, and my sleeping bag compressed well. The bag had the original Polarguard fill (old sleeping bag). Because my rear hatch in that boat (Squall) leaked horribly, I was grateful that the dry bag really was dry inside.
When I tried a new sleeping bag containing an updated fill (I think it’s Polarguard 3D but I’m not sure without getting the bag out), it just didn’t want to compress much, no matter what kind of container I tried jamming it into. The loft is incredibly springy. I actually STOOD AND BOUNCED on the Black Canyon sack after I’d pushed the sleeping bag into it, trying to squash it more. It would squish down–and then boing right back to a bigger volume. Never happened with the old sleeping bag.
It also didn’t happen with the DOWN sleeping bag I ended up buying for kayak camping. The down bag compresses far more easily, quickly, and much, much smaller. I’m glad I quit wasting time trying to force a too-springy loft into a compression bag. The synthetic bag with the too-springy loft has been designated for car-camping only, and the down bag reserved strictly for kayak-camping.
PrimaLoft seems to compress very well. Unfortunately, there are few PrimaLoft sleeping bags available in the sub-freezing temperature category. And they cost as much as down anyway.