Ok, we finally got out camping in our kayaks, after years of canoe camping with plenty of room for gear. I understood intellectually that space was a premium, if not so much weight, but now I get in my gut! Here’s the first of several gear questions…
What’s the best way to compress a sleeping bag?
I tried two – an OR Hyrdroseal with four compression straps but no valve, and a SealLine Black Canyon with two straps and a sealable opening that serves as a valve.
Neither worked very well, for a couple of reasons. What do you use for your sleeping bag?
Thanks. --David.
Compression caps?
Not sure that they’d work any better than what you tried, but they are cheap and simple.
i use a stuff sack
then into a purgeable dry bag (wxtex)
You mean like this…
– Last Updated: Sep-25-06 2:10 PM EST –
http://tinyurl.com/kbkkg
Hmmm... might work. Worth a shot.
Afterwards I did experiment with a WXTex 15L and 25L sack with a valve but no straps. The problem was getting enough initial compression to be able to roll the top of the bag down enough for a good seal. Without that, there's no point in expelling the air through the valve, since it will leak back in through the top. The 15L was hopeless, the 25L marginal but still leaky.
So, the trick might be to compress a standard stuff sack with a cap, put that inside a strapless, valved bag and them compress even more with the valve, and give you the dryness.
--David.
Yup
– Last Updated: Sep-25-06 3:18 PM EST –
Won't keep them dry, but it does make the compression a lot easier than arguing with a fancier compression sack. Should mention that we also have what were called stuff sacks that came with the sleeping bags, but we seem to be able to subsequently get them a lot more compressed with these caps.
Try Cabella’s
– Last Updated: Sep-25-06 2:25 PM EST –
Cabella's used to sell a good compression bag that was waterproof, it has a air valve and Ive used it for years Kayak camping. Don't know if they still carry it.
Exped Waterproof Dry Bags
David,
I like Exped Dry Bags which are imported by OR from Switzerland.
http://tinyurl.com/3qwqj
then scroll down and look for the bags that make your sleeping bag a skinny sausage. This bag doesn’t have a valve but works well making the sleeping bag small enough for a NDK hatch.
Suz
I looked again at the OR Hydroseal…
– Last Updated: Sep-25-06 3:27 PM EST –
... that I used, and inspired by Celia's suggestion for compression caps, realized I had not set it up right. It's got a stuff sack with caps "inside" with a roll-down dry bag closure above that. I did not notice the inner stuff sack closure before, and so had the sleeping bag "leaking" out into the dry bag rolldown area, which made it impossible to seal properly.
So I stuffed the sleeping bag into the inner sack and cincehd it with the cordlock ~and~ with a slip knot across the mouth using the convenient cinch point on the inner sack rim. Then, I compressed hard with the straps. That left the roll down top flapping nice and loose for a good three rolls and a firm seal.
Voila, it's as hard as a rock and fits easily into the (Valley) hatch and turns across the boat with room to spare. It may even fit into an NDK hatch, but that's not my problem at the moment ;-)) If I needed that, I would look more seriously at the skinny Expeds suggested here.
So, the secret seems to be the double OR design -- a stuff sack with compression straps and caps, plus a dry bag roll top, all in one waterproof package.
--David.
ditto the exped gear
The exped compression sacks are great, especially since they compress to a long and thin shape, not a fat and wide shape. Anyone who has a 10" round front hatch should check them out.
Exped’s making a lot of nice light weight stuff, the DAM is the most comfortable thing I’ve slept on. Ok it’s a copy of the original Stephensons DAM but it’s light, warm, and oh so comfortable.
Yep, stuff sack inside a WTex works too.
– Last Updated: Sep-25-06 4:40 PM EST –
I just tried it with a 25L WTex. It works, but without compresseion straps/caps, I can't get it as small and hard as with the OR Hydroseal, now that I know how to use it.
Also, I'm not sure how well the WTex's work for extreme compression. As my package was sitting on the floor behind me, I heard it leaking air slightly and losing its compression. I compressed it again and rolled the top more securely, and it now seems fine -- but I'll letcha know in a couple more hours ;-)))
It does seem that the stuff sack/WTex combo can give a flatter, more rectangular package, which snuggles better with other stuff in the hatch.
Thanks. --David.
Sea to Summit
Hi David,
I just purchased a Sea to Summit Compression Dry Sack. It is the nuts. It is a roll top closure watertight closure with a breathable fabric bottom. When you compress the bag the air goes one way out through the bottom, but water vapor can’t come in. I love seas to summit products. I’ve been using their dry bags for about two years now and, so far, they hold up great.
Cheers
~wetzool
My flat WXTex 25L leaks…
… with a heavily compressed sleeping bag inside. I have the bag in a stuff sack inside the dry bag, and was able to roll the dry bag top down quite securely. Nevertheless, after a couple of hours, the bag is doing a good Michelin Man imitation (http://tinyurl.com/rqpz5). I guess I could have done it wrong. I placed the flap down, did my best to bring the two yellow plastic strips into full contact, and rolled it tightly a good three times.
I realize that such a slow leak will not really compromise the dryness of the contents unles the bag totally submerges for a while. But it does hurt the bag’s ability to hold compression. So, I guess it’s straps and caps for the sleeping bag and other extreme compression jobs.
–David.
Sea to Summit – looks interesting, but.
I still have a question – how do you get the roll top to seal well with a sleeping bag trying to escape? The OR Hydroseal solves that by having a sack within a sack, with a cinch top inside that holds the sleeping bag well away from the roll top.
When I didn’t use that inner bag cinch, I inevitably found the sleeping bag “leaking” out toward the roll top, making it difficult to seal properly. In one case, despite my best efforts, I actually saw sleeping bag showing out the supposedly sealed roll top.
–David.
The Exped Synmat 7 looks interesting
Hi, Mike:
I don’t know if I need the -11F of the Exped DAM, but the Synmat 7 looks interesting, good down to 0F. It rolls up to 7 x 6", which is pretty good for a kayak, not much more than my REI Lite-Core 1.5 foam core.
Where do you buy those puppies in the US?
Thanks. --David.
exped
Altrec.com sells Exped online, and Bob Smith’s Wilderness House sold Exped, but I’m not sure if they still do now that they’re Joe Jones Wilderness House. It doesn’t look like anyone is selling the Synth Mats yet, they probably just came out.
I figured Exped would come out with a synthetic mat since Big Agnes and Pacific Outdoors make a cheaper synthetic mat. I believe Pacific Outdoors makes the mats for Big Agnes, all the specs are the same.
exped
Altrec.com sells Exped online, and Bob Smith’s Wilderness House sold Exped, but I’m not sure if they still do now that they’re Joe Jones Wilderness House. It doesn’t look like anyone is selling the Synth Mats yet, they probably just came out.
I figured Exped would come out with a synthetic mat since Big Agnes and Pacific Outdoors make a cheaper synthetic mat. I believe Pacific Outdoors makes the mats for Big Agnes, all the specs are the same.
Bag Size is Large -
9" round by 20" long. This starts out almost the same dimensions as my stock sleeping bag stuff sack (9.5" x 20"), so it’s easy to stuff the sleeping bag inside and still have plenty of material to roll 3 to 5 times. I can get my synthetic sleeping bag compressed to just over 12" long by 9".
I could probably use a medium compression dry sack (8" x 18") for this bag as well, but it would be a lot more difficult to get started.
Nice thing is the bags are fairly inexpensive. I think I paid about $35 for the large size.
~wetzool
OR Hydroseals are $12-$15…
… at Campmor. http://tinyurl.com/f6dmn
I find that actually rather remarkable in this day of hi-tech prices. Things like this usually start in the mid $20s or $30s and go up fast from there.
–David.
I have a couple of older OR
hydroseal sacks, but they are only water resistant. Maybe they’ve changed, but the ones I have don’t seal worth a darn. They’re OK for splashes, but not submersion. They are about half the price, however.
Exped at Altrec
I see 'em – http://tinyurl.com/grewm
Looks like they have only some models of the Downmat, Airmat and ComfortFoam. Of the ones they have, only the Downmats pack small enough for a kayak, IMHO. The 9 is definitely overkill for us, but the 7 looks good and packs to 5 x 7. Hmmm… Exped says it packs to 6 x 7, but that’s fine.
Now, the question is, do I want to spring for $140, or $140 x 2, considering we don’t camp on snow and ice? Might be worth it just for the comfort.
One question – Exped says the stuff sacks are waterproof. The close-up pictures at Altrec appear to show a roll-top closure. Does that mean it functions as a dry bag?
Hey, Mike, can I take a test nap on yours at some point?
–David.