9" round?
9" round? Sounds like an NDK hatch. If that’s the case, my North Face Cat’s Meow fits great in the back hatch, then turned 90 degrees and shoved against the bulkhead. It’s synthetic, and last year’s model is usually available at a discount from the usual places.
Down has a lot of advantages, but will insulate when it’s wet. Sure, it’s not going to be comfortable, but I’d just rather not take the chance with down around water.
I sleep in
a tent when I am camping, it has always kept me dry no matter how hard or long it rains… I pack my down bag (Big Agness) in a sealine waterproof compression bag and put that in the hatch (9") where it remains totally dry (even if I do a roll or two for fun) I may be wrong but in my opinion you would have to have some really poor bags or be really sloppy to get your bag wet.
I agree.
steve
Seems to me
that the two of you also have much in common… stubborn, opinionated, goal oriented, quasi-perfectionists, skilled in your passions, blah blah blah…
Pnet’s very own Lemmon and Matthau!
Pleasant holidays, gentlemen.
Holmes
Getting Wet
There’s many ways for a sleeping bag to get wet. Seam seal for instance will wear down. Water bottles have been know to spill inside a tent. I saw a down bag get soaked when a mico-burst blew a bag into a lake. On a windy rainy night rain flies can loosen and touch the tent. When that happens condensation, while sleeping, can make a bag damp. If cloud cover keeps the air warmer than expected your sweat will be absorbed. When snow camping I’ve witnessed my sweat freezing on the outside of my synthetic bag. It wicks that well. Down won’t do that. If they get clammy from sweat they’ll lose loft when stuffed. Name a way for a bag to get wet or damp and I’ve probably seen it. That’s why I got rid of my down bag.
You miss the point…
No, a syn bag doesn’t dry a lot quicker. But it retains at least some insulation value when wet, whereas down is completely useless. A McKinley guide would usually know that.
As to your experience, the term is “YMMV,” or “your mileage may vary.” There are drunks who drive home wasted every night for 30 years without getting in an accident, and others who get killed the first time they drive under the influence. Just because you’ve been skirting along all these years without soaking a bag doesn’t mean anything. You are a statistical sample of exactly one, which is virtually nothing.
My own experience includes climbing from NH to Nepal, sea miles from the BVI to BH. I can easily pack 3+ weeks of gear in a pulk including a bulky syn bag when I’ve crossed sea ice. And whatever venture I’ve been involved in, I’ve never met anybody worth his “salt” who would suggest down in an extended maritime environment. It’s reckless to expose yourself to that type of risk for so little benefit.
Not as interesting as you would think
It happens a lot, actually. Sometimes people who are the heaviest involved with activities are the most easily lulled into complacency. Call it overconfidence, if you like. I’ve seen it kill more than once, and you don’t have to dig far to find innumerable examples of heavily experienced people who should have known better dying in ways that every novice is taught to avoid.
If somebody wants to ignore the realistic possibility that basic and relatively common mechanical failure could result in a wet sleeping bag, that’s their business. IMHO, they cross the line into recklessness when they start to tell other people to ignore the risks and adopt their cavalier behavior.
And you could have
made your point far more effectively without the nasty insinuations.
Holmes
Met a man in the mountains once…
…who had a big gun. Said I was foolish for not carrying one myself. Bears, he said. Calculated risk, I said.
I use down.
there’s only one way…Jack’s way…
Doesn’t matter what workes for ya . there’s only one way…
or
peole who are familiar with some things are willing to take extra care to ensure they continue working.
But having slept a few times in a wet down bag I wouldn’t want to repeat the experience,when it’s 30degrees and I’m cold. Everyone has their non-negotiables.
yep…
gotta agree with ya!
probably if we were stuck on the same beach break together for an afternoon we’d come away friends.
maybe someday…
happy holidaze to you too.
steve
I agree
Everyone does have their non-negotiables. And like I said, the risks someone chooses to take are their own business. I just don’t like it when they start to tell others to take the same risks, based upon the fact they have happened to get away with it for however long. After all, I wouldn’t listen to a smoker of 30 years telling me it’s okay to light up because they still don’t have lung cancer, either.
Folks, lets get real
If you think I’m being dangerous because I use down, you don’t know the facts. I won’t die if my bag gets soaked!!!(I’ll be uncomfortable, but I will not die!) I feel confident in saying that I have probably suffered more outdoors than most. I worked rescues in the Ak range and spent more than one night thinking I’d never see home again. I plan carefully, have backups, have skill and judgement, and in over 12000 participant days as a guide never lost anyone. One dislocated shoulder on a Yellowstone backcountry ski trip. So lighten up eh. You just cannot accuse me of being reckless with that record. I’m the one saying “do what makes you feel comfortable.” If you want to place judgement on someone because they use a down bag, that’s just plain silly. When the sh*t hits the fan, my money’s on me! Cats Meow is just too bulky for my packing style, but it’s a good bag…that’s what we used in our coastal outdoor program. Yeah, customers got sunthetic with a washable liner. They also paddled bigger boats.
Safe paddling. Our stuff is just our stuff, and chances are our ideas will continue to evolve. Nuff said on this.
Amen
Thanks to all who offered up their
suggestions, experiences and a bit of religion. We will sit down and syn-thesize the info and make a purchase!
Salty
I, personally, don’t think there is anything wrong with you using a down bag. To each their own. I, personally, wouldn’t recommend it. for most people I feel down is unnecessary. That doesn’t mean I feel that’s true for all applications. My posts aren’t meant to be an insult. They’re only my opinions.
One other benefit of synthetic over down is they work better at stabilizing broken bones and sprained ankles. The fact that they don’t compress as well as down is a plus.
marmot or mountain hardwear
make the nicest bags in my opinion.
I’ve got two awesome bags from them.
The mountain hardwear is a phantom 32 degree bag, that stuffs to the zize of a nalgene bottle perfect for sea kayaking.
Just make sure to put it in a drybag.
marmot
I use a Marmot Hydrogen, 30 degree bag. stuffs to nalgene size.(Down), same , just pack in a dry bag, and pick your camp and tent sites with weather in mind. The smaller the gear, the better the food,(or more food) and the longer the trip before a re-suply
Hey Jack,!
Flatpick and Salty and all the other down users are on to something. Down bags rock! I have a 20 degree (conservative rating) Marmot Sawtooth Membrane. It has a water proof shell. I paddle all over the PNW/BC/SE AK and never had problems. I am a bit cautious with how I pack it but the bag itself has its own built in protections.
Anyone, who is serious about investigating down vs synthetic sleeping bags check out the annual issue of Backpacker magazine. The construction materials and methods are totally different today. There are even bags that have welded seams instead of stitched. Cool stuff.
Folks, ditch those big ol’ flannel sleeping bags with the ducks or deer printed on them and get a modern, compressable bag. They are not as much money as you think.
Dog’