Do You Really Need 4WD?
The reason I ask… there are so many 4WD vehicles on the road wasting gas that never have to traverse anything more challenging than a speed bump.
Forester, Highlander etc
My wife has a 2007 Forester & (so far) has carried just her one small kayak (Impex Mystic) on it. She loves it (actually, both boat and Subaru). But I don’t plan to tow with it as I have a 4wd pickup for towing. The Forester is the bargain small suv out there with the $2K rebate and 1.9% financing. You can get a base model with auto trans for $19K.
Toyota should be making good deals on old-style 07 Highlanders (if they have any left) to make room for the new style 08’s. The v-6 would be better for towing. The new RAV-4 is not much smaller than the outgoing Highlander - equipped similarly, the old (07) Highlander is very little more money than the 07 RAV4. The 08 new style Highlander is supposed to be bigger than the 07 and more “RAV-4 style”.
love our honda element
The lack of carpet and the other interior materials make it very water friendly. We put cheap heavy duty floor mats in (from home depot) to keep things from sliding around in the back. What I especially love about this car is that the interior height is such that you have enough space to fairly comfortably change your clothes in the back. Nice when you get off the water all sweaty or wet and want to go out for a bite. Also, because of the clam shell style doors, you can also change standing up between two doors beside the car and have some privacy. We have not towed anything with it so I can’t tell you about that. I can tell you that it gets up to speed pretty fast, except if you are going uphill with the AC on. It does hug the road very nicely.
My Jeep Grand Cherokee is more powerful, but a lot heavier, and uses more gas, and the interior is not as water friendly. We always prefer to go with the Element when paddling.
PS: If you are looking at some of the newer smaller Jeep models, you should know that many of them are not really Jeeps, they are built on Dodge platforms.
you want it to last you right?
Get a Toyota. You will only be wasting gas with an AWD since it’s always in 4 wheel (hence the name, AWD). Don’t get me wrong, if I had the money to waste gas and get better road handling at the same time I’d get a Forester in a heartbeat. But, I’ve had great experience with toyotas. 86 minivan, 85 minivan, 82 pickup 4x4 - all still running strong.
Take a serious look at the Toyota rav 4, prerunner (not 4 wheel, but locking differential), Honda element or CRV.
Steven
Sante Fe
couple of friends have them and they have great reliability. Hyundai has come a long way in the last 30 years.
Also agree with JackL on the Escape. Ford and Mazda have a good little truck there as well, but then again most of them are pretty good now.
lots of choices
I work for Ford so am biased. I’m on my third Escape lease vehicle and it’s a perfect paddling vehicle…cheerful personality, handles great and is fun to drive, great headroom, super easy to park - and perfect boat vehicle - because - it’s an easy reach to the roof rack (better than Explorer or Expedition), it has the roof rails that allow you to attach brackets (I use Thule) so I have a double rack that snaps on and off in about 10 seconds max, and the rear window still opens separately from the rear hatch so that comes in handy. It can easily tow my motorcycle trailer so a kayak trailer would be effortless. My wife and I both like sitting up high too.
It’s got a seamless automatic 4wd system that kicks in only when you need it, and an Escape is super fun to drive in snow or on dirt or gravel roads - great handling and great manners in rough stuff.
It’s a great value vehicle so it depends what you want to spend and what you really want out of the vehicle. The Honda and Toyota might be more “slick” and maybe more refined for long trips. The 2008 Escape has many improvements to make it quieter and it has a new interior…nice upgrades to a nice vehicle. If you want extra cool and aren’t worried about cost then you might want to look at a BMW X3.
ret603…
What hitch did you get? Mine on a 06 RAV requires no special extension. I have a Hidden Hitch Class 3 {3500lbs rating}. Yes, it has a 2" receiver for the ball hitch,but nothing but standard receiver.You didn’t go buy that WAY over priced Toyota hitch,did you?
I have trailer brakes,and worth every penny when it comes to panic stops because of a idiot driver. Total package of brake controller,LED light converter,hitch & install $360,at local RV dealer.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2201904020050436027gkdVru
billinpa
Consider This
– Last Updated: Aug-19-07 6:34 AM EST –
At some destinations parking and manuevering a trailer will be far more constraining than two wheel drive will ever be during the paddling season in Central IL. I'd put MPG at the top of my list of priorities for a new vehicle:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174829
AWD / 4WD
Can be legitimately seen as a safety tool in many regions. It all depends on where you live, and where you drive. I can’t imagine not having it. If I lived in the SE, I’d probably feel differently!
I’m Sure Some Folks Need It
– Last Updated: Aug-19-07 5:44 AM EST –
Folks who routinely have to go off road or deal with deep, fresh snow can likely justify 4WD. Especially people in the mountains.
One of my bike buddies had a 4WD truck. He said it was a big waste. Said he'd put it in 4WD about once a year just to see if it would still work.
I love my father in law's quote. "Four wheel drive will just get you stuck much farther from civilization." He traded his big 4WD truck for a smaller rear wheel drive.
It irritates me that I can't buy a new Camry, Corolla, Civic, or Accord wagon. They don't make them 'cause America is fixated on big and four wheel drive. Personally, I think front wheel drive with some good tires will take most all Americans where they want to go without getting stuck... at a significant fuel savings.
Yeah, I bet 95% of the 4WD vehicles I see here in the SE never, ever need to be in 4WD mode.
missed something
1. Maneuvering a trailer is only difficult if you haven’t done it much. It’s a basic skill that can be learned like any other - certainly not a big deal.
2. If a person hauls 3 or more canoes/kayaks at a time (as I do) it’s more fuel efficient to tow a trailer behind a small vehicle than to haul your boats with a pick up truck. My personal experience confirms this - that’s not idle speculation.
Trailering
I have two trailers including a gooseneck I use for business. While trailering, there are places that I absolutely have to avoid like trying to get into a gas station near a busy intersection.
I have been to putins or takeouts where there are no turn arounds or they are very tight, where all the parking is bumper to bumper, where very sharp turns are needed to get off busy, high speed highways, blind spots, etc. There is no denying that trailering can be a real hassle in such situations regardless of driving skills. Of course, with the option of a roof rack, the trailer can be left at home if such scenarios are forseen.
My point was that in these situations, trailering will be more of a constraint than not having 4 wheel drive will ever likely be IN CENTRAL IL, the location of the poster.
I take your point about trailering to achieve added efficiency for hauling 3 or more boats with a smaller vehicle. I applaud any effort you are making to reduce consumption.
Regardless of the trailering and 4WD issues, we have tough times coming in the oil and gas market and having a high mileage vehicle would trump all other considerations and uses for me. Travel to paddling destinations may soon be a luxury for many of us if it already isn’t. This factor is one that boat builders are definitely concerned about (Bob Woodward, “Selling Through Drought”, Paddlesports Business, Summer 2007, p.32).
Why does
everyone feel the need to call Cooldoctor’s desire to own a 4 wheel drive vehicle into question?? He didn’t post asking if he should or shouldn’t get a 4x4 vehicle. He posted asking for recommendations on smaller 4x4 vehicles he should consider in his search based on other paddler’s experiences.
So do him a favor - if you have valid input on good candidates share it with him. Save the “you don’t need 4x4, no one needs 4x4, 4x4 needlessly wastes gas” preaching for another thread.
Cooldoctor - many folks have recommended some great smaller 4x4 vehicles for you to consider, go test drive the heck out of them and good luck in your search. I just finished helping my father in law purchase a new vehicle, I know it isn’t the funnest chore in the world.
Love my Forester too!
It’s about needs
I agree with you mostly, but believe me, driving through a blizzard in Wyoming or the Yukon without 4wd would be unpleasant. There are the silly quotes about getting stuck further in, and not stopping any faster. Think about it. When all 4 wheels are driving, you also have compression braking to all 4 wheels, so an intelligent driver will stop faster. An idiot will get in trouble for sure. But some of these modern all wheel drives are just awesome, and make for a far safer vehicle in nasty conditions.
I recall a trip in the Escalante some years back with a friend who had all these anti 4wd statements. We experienced a flash flood and the long dirt road was washed out in one area rendering his 2wd truck useless. Luckily a big 4wd truck came along and pulled us through. I cannot recall how many vehicles my truck has extracted over the years. Where you live it isn’t needed. Where I live and where I go, it’s required equipment.
Cool vs Doctor
Yeah, it’s popular, “cool” if you will, to drive a big SUV with AWD or 4WD.
If you’ll never need or use AWD or 4WD but you pay and pay for it, that’s not too smart. Not something someone with a doctorate would normally do.
Now if you need it to get to the hospital to treat patients during a blizzard, it’s entirely justified.
I don’t think it’s at all inappropriate to share what I’ve learned about people regretting their purchases of 4WD vehicles.
No need is true for most up north too
– Last Updated: Aug-19-07 12:39 PM EST –
Probably 70 percent of my driving is with my company pickup. For about 11 years, that truck was a two-wheel-drive Chevy S-10 (I put close to 250,000 miles on it). For the last 6 years my company truck has been a two-wheel-drive Ford Ranger. I drive regardless of the weather, and though we don't get as much snow in southern Wisconsin as we once did, the roads can still get pretty slippery. I think I've been stuck about three times, and the longest it ever took me to shovel out was about ten minutes. That's normal road driving. Off-road for my work purposes has been a different story, and 4x4 could certainly be justified there (I've been towed where I needed to go by a bulldozer or concrete truck a bunch of times, and I use tire chains when necessary), but on the pavement, in fresh snow I can drive up all but the very steepest hills as long as I have a about 190 pounds in the very back of the truck and keep the right tire pressure. My personal car is 4x4, and it actually gets used as such, but if I never went camping on back trails or needed to park in places with really crappy access, I know I could get along pretty well without it. I always chuckle when I see people driving in light snow with the 4x4 engaged and there's just no need.
We’re Almost in Total Agreement
The father in law quote isn’t silly. HE got stuck in his 4WD truck in the middle of nowhere.
Questions?
Admitted, I did question the need for both a 4 wheel drive and a trailer – for some situations, for some people.
I was not questioning anything other than the inappropriate use of technology. Where they are not needed, a 4 wheel drive vehicle is an inappropriate and wasteful use of an otherwise potentially valuable technology. I own a heavy 4 WD pickup that I use strictly for farm work because the gas mileage sucks for anything else. No preaching, just an observation that is difficult to refute with facts but quite easy to charge with emotion. And no matter how good their relative mileage, there is not a single SUV or pickup truck on the market today that is getting us near where we need to be in substantially reducing our consumption of oil and reducing CO2 emissions. Sometimes, when we are going in the wrong direction, it is not bad to question. It is one thing to live in this system, and quite another thing to defend it.
Yes
I agree completely.
My previous comments were heavy handed. My apologies. I can be such an ass.
True story: When I came home from paddling this afternoon - pulling my canoe trailer - I returned to our farm yard only to find a friend of mine had moved one of our tractors which blocked my “pull up” spot and parked his car right in my “turn around” spot…
My careless phrasing of this morning came to mind.
Instant karma ;^)
- Randall