and no one solution, just lots of little answers and solutions. We have to look at the big picture and assess our needs. Then we make the best decision against those needs. A great female friend of mine flies jets for Alaska Airlines. She can't miss a flight due to weather, thus has an AWD, which has helped her on several occassions.
Using a big vehicle as a grocery getter is silly, but if 70% of it's use is legit, and you use the other 30% as a grocery getter, are you bad? I run veg oil, but homestly would not recommend that for most people. It just makes sense for me and helps make a big turbo diesel truck, which I do require, environmentally cleaner (not as clean as some WVO burners want to think), and reduces my need for petroleum.
Buying second cars, even if used may not make sense either. Insurance, maintenance, energy cost of building a new car, and taking a used car off the market that could serve someone else. All things to consider.
But it seems human nature tends us toward categorizing and over-simplifying things into nice little boxes of right wrong, good, bad etc. I don't need an SUV, therefore they are bad and most people who drive them are crazy....
Look at the data and make an educated choice, then drive and care for the machine wisely. How many of you have oil dripping into the water table secondary to a poorly cared for car? Go take a look!
Suzuki Vitara I have a Chevy Tracker. Not sold by them anymore so you’d have to find a Suzuki dealer. They are high enough off the ground for 4 wheeling and off road driving, though not the greatest on gas mileage - I get 20-22 on my v6. Just have the dealer add a hitch for you.
I need a 4wd. Light winter this past, and yet I used it at least a dozen times. Even getting in and out of my driveway when the plow comes by, I need it. When my work closed due to snow (two days this past winter), I gotta be there.
Wife wants a bigger 4wd: safety, kid hauling, etc. I want smaller: less gas, easy parking,etc. Wife winning because wife has wifely powers over me. You know that score.
Anticipate getting a GMC Yukon Denali. Saw one at Oakbrook Mall this past weekend, and iwfe went nutso. I was okay with it, but am much more ga-ga over a Valley Nordkapp then I ever would be over a vehicle. bruce knows what I mean. I know, counter to what I wrote above. But I may need a second 4WD SUV, mine, and I'm getting small. Many great ideas above. Not car crazy, we just are in a phase of needing new transport (and trading old). We live in central IL, country roads, snow drifts, mudy put-ins, etc. Plus I gotta pull the trailers that redmon and arkay and all the others spouted on and on about; now I gots me one. Pimping it now.
Thanks so much for your great ideas. I'm going to read them again now.
Since No One Makes My Wagons… I did a little research a year or so back. Some automotive magazine or another rated the small SUVs. They really liked the Forester, the RAV4, and the CRV. Another thing to consider is a Toyota Tacoma truck with an extended cab. Economical and reliable. I think String said he had good experience with the locking differential… got him out of a ditch or somewhere similarly sticky.
More Rav4 thoughts from owner of 07 V6 Cooldoctor1,
My thoughts on the power of the Rav4 V6, good quiet ride, great climate control system on limited model (controls every thing except global warming) are posted above. I hate reviews that only tell the good features (I bought it so it must be the best, since I’ll so smart), so here’s some warts on the Rav4.
A problem with the new Rav4, new CRV and other car based small SUVs is the new styling: lowered roofline in back combined with the pinched in sides. While it’s done for trendy appearance, and I suspect the sales numbers are up, it sucks for putting large objects (my bike) in the back. Also reduces rear visibility somewhat. Don’t know what still has large square back- think Ford Escape and Forester and a few others still do- but the lowered pinched in back is a hindrance for loading bikes and other large things. I’ll have to look at external bike carriers now. Also, the curved sides make cartopping a longer reach and like many new vehicles, finding tie down points is harder. Have gone to the web straps to fender bolts under the hood for the front and rear ties to tow hitch. Swing out doors like on Rav4 are better for accessing the rear with boats still on top. May work, may not, depending on boat and way it’s carried. Swing up top has to stop against underside of boats- may be ok for some, and may be too low (I’m 6’ 1" so headroom is an issue) Swing out doors are a pain if car is parked close behind you and both previous CRV (my wife has one) and Rav4 swing wrong way, towards the curb- in Japan they drive on other side of road.
All in all I still like the Rav4 V6 and love the power when towing small boat trailer. I am quite annoyed by the changes imposed by styling. I would give it unconditional approval if all the good attributes were wrapped by an “old school styling” in a square body such as the previous generation CRV.
Like canoes and kayaks, there is no perfect design. While looking at canoes/kayaks is much more fun, try to enjoy your journey through the car lots.
Forester experience I have a 1999 Subaru Forester approaching 180,000 miles. At the time I bought mine, Forester was the best small AWD/4WD car-like vehicle around that met my needs. Especially regarding ground clearance since I live in rural Iowa and travel 10 miles of gravel on my daily commute. At that time the Forester offered better gas mileage, more power, more ground clearance, more usable space, and slightly better price than the Honda CRV or Toyata RAV.
I chose the Forester over the Outback (my local dealer had both available at the same price) because the Forester and Outback shared the same engine and drive train, but the Forester weighed less. I think that is still true and something you should check on in making your decision. In addition, while the Outback had slightly more storage volume, the storage space in the Forester was more usable.
If I were looking today (I’m hoping to get another 100,000 out of my Forester but not betting on it) I would seriously look at the Honda CRV and especially the new Toyota RAV. I think both have improved considerably.
Some things to consider if you are looking at Subaru.
Their parts are more costly than Honda or Toyota.
Any engine work, at least on the Forester, will take more shop time than Honda or Toyota because everything is tightly packed in the engine bay; for example it is a PIA to change plugs because you have to remove a whole bunch of stuff to get at them. That is a drawback of the horizontally opposed boxster engine that in my opinion is offset by its weight being lower giving the vehicle much better handling.
Don’t get a manual transmission. They have been notorious for clutch judder. Subaru claims this has been fixed on more recent models but I still hear complaints. I had my clutch replaced with a new one about a year ago and still have that problem when it is humid, raining, or very cold outside. Besides the AWD with the automatic transmission does a much better job of distributing power to each of the wheels when needed.
Parts that I never had to replace on my Honda started to go bad around 150,000 miles on the Forester. Maybe comparing a Honda with any other vehicle is not fair, but that is my experience.
Finally, if you go with a Subaru and plan to keep it for a real long time replace the head gaskets before 150,000 miles. No matter what anyone from Subaru tells you, they will go bad. You don’t want to go through the experience of head gaskets going bad, especially if it happens more than 20 miles away from the dealer. As a matter of fact, Subaru of Canada advises its dealers to change the head gaskets around 150,000 miles while Subaru of America is silent on this issue.
Subaru vs Honda vs Toyota AWD Having experience with all three, my opinion is that the Subaru all wheel drive system just feels more effective and capable in snow, mud, etc. Perhaps their design and years of refinement give them the edge. I’d love to know from an auto engineer perspective if their design is actually superior. Sure feels like it to me.
No doubt about… Subies AWD system,I had several for many years,but Subaru lags behind in interior room,power,gas mileage of other vehicles,now on the market.You have to buy their top end vehicles to get most of the safety features offered as standard equipment on standard vehicles of other makes.Honda follows Toyota in the newer 4WD/AWD systems. My wife now wants a RAV,after nearly 30 years of driving a Subaru.My RAV V-6 gets better mileage then my wifes 4cyl Outback.The Subie is far more cramped inside,their rear door entry is a real head banger,and lacks usable power. My 4WD system takes me everywhere she can go,so that’s all I need. BTW the RAV’s 4WD cuts out after 25mph,and that’s why the better milage. I can lock it in ,or it senses slippage to lost power wheel,and applies either power,or even braking to control the vehicle. Years ago Subie offered a knock out 4WD system,and had much better milage because of it.I have talked to Subaru,and they state to many buyers want all 4 on contact to change back now even that gas milage is a factor.Could be their big mistake,who knows.
4wd in Subaru Owned a number of Subaru and feel their AWD is better than Rav4’s “on demand 4WD”. That said I stopped buying Subaru cars and dumped the last one we had for a previous generation CRV because of the chronic head gasket failures on Subarus- $1500-2500 repair, depending on what else is done at the same time. The gasket on my daughter’s Outback failed at the top of the Rockies. We coasted in neutral about 7 miles downhill to an exit where there was a repair shop. They blew us off so we were transported on a flatbed for an hour to Denver. PITA! The limited Rav4 allows you to lock in 4WD at low speeds to start on ice or steep hills.
Very well said Vic and fits my experience with five Subaru’s over the years, including my wife’s car. Good machines, but my mechanic pal who owns a big shop and works on many brands echo’s your thoughts. He ranks Japanese cars — Toyota, Honda, Subaru in that order regarding maintenance and repair cost / frequency. Still, Sub’s are a great blend of attributes and offer a lot of value.
Honda’s CRV AWD Never driven a subie, but then again, at 6’3", I’ve never fit when I went to check them out. Even the forester’s a bit cramped to me.
I did drive a company-owned 2007 CRV for about 9400 miles before they laid me off. Own two more Hondas right now w/ AWD and can say that I don’t think anyone would ever need any better traction than I got in 6-8" of snow last winter in the CRV. FWD until you need it, then AWD. Hand’s off system, not full time. Gas mileage is hard to argue with for an SUV.
I may be confused about this on the CRV (I’ve forgotten) but I know my Ridgeline has a button in which I can lock the AWD in for starting out on ice. It auto shuts off at 18mph. I haven’t (& don’t want to) driven my wife’s Element enough to know if it has it. Gas mileage on that, though the same engine as the CRV, sucks because of the lack of effective aerodynamics.
I've been very happy with Toyotas. Easy to do the simple maintenance myself... change plugs; adjust valves. Frequency of repair is great. My truck was assembled in Fremont California and they used a GM radiator. Needless to say the radiator had to be replaced. Starter also. Thirteen years and 175,000 miles and those are the only somewhat expensive shop visits.
If someone put a gun to my head and said I had to get another vehicle today it would likely be the Tacoma truck with a shell on the back and that locking differential. I think I could tote 'yaks and bikes, crawl in the back and sleep if I had to and get around in bad weather... especially with a little extra weight over the rear wheels.
I agree… I’ve had one subaru (impreza AWD), two toyotas, and one honda over the years. I agree with all that was written above–the subarus are great when they work, but little things go wrong with them, they aren’t nearly as reliable as toyotas and hondas, and parts are expensive. My experience with toyotas and hondas has been 100% positive (but I’ve never had an AWD toyota or honda, so I can’t speak to that). Supposedly quality control on subarus has been improving, but they’re extremely common around here (snow country) and they pay college tuition bills for a lot of mechanic’s kids.
Trucks are so useful! And a locking differential is an awesome feature for dirt, sand,deep snow, but be careful on ice!!! My only issue with some of these smaller trucks is fuel economy. The old standby 2.4 liter 4 was an excellent engine, but the V-6’s eat gas. In contrast my 7000+ lb. Dodge Cummins 4x4 with 8’ bed and enough torque to pull a house gets 20 mpg. Durability is far greater as well, even compared to Toyota. I’m at over 400k miles now and many have exceeded one million miles without re-build!
4WD in my experience with living in the country (rarely graded dirt and mud roads)and off-road sporting is that a 4wd systems should be manually engaged. Whether your route home requires driving on a dirt road or on snow and ice, everyone should learn IMHO, to evaluate ahead of time, what conditions will require it. I have owned vehicles with manual 4w manual locking hubs- auto locking hubs and self-engaging 4wd.
My thought is that you should be able to have control of engaging/disengaging 4WD at all times. Simply put, if there’s snow on the road…4WD, if conditions are clear then not…if you’ll be driving in mud or see the need for better/sure traction ahead…4WD. I know most of the smaller SUV’s only offer “self” engaging 4WD, but I would suggest a vehicle that let’s you decide when you need 4WD, after all, since most vehicles don’t have eyes, sometimes it should be in 4W before “it” decides you need to be.
Although I’ve mostly owned toyotas, I did “inherit” from my wife an older 4WD chevy tracker and I was impressed with how many years and miles it gave me (just over 200k) despite occasional off-road situations well above it’s capabilities. And, it was also a fun vehicle to drive. I imagine that the suzuki vitara would also be a good choice of smaller SUV.
My “dream” vehicle would be an FJ cruiser, of course, that probably has less fuel efficiency than you desire.
Happy Hunting, I’m sure you’ll learn to love whatever you wind up getting…and don’t forget to have fun in the process.
Over 400k! That’s really impressive. Was your Cummins built in Indiana? Cummins was the big employer in Columbus, Indiana near where I grew up.
My little truck has the 2.4 liter 4. If I drive like a little old lady I can get 29 mpg. It’s terrible in the snow until I get some weight in the back. About 300 pounds over the rear axle and it does great. A guy at work bought a bladder that stays in his truck bed. If it snows he hooks up a hose to the bladder… quick & easy weight. No lifting.
Truck was Canadian built not sure where 5.9 liter engine was built, but probably Indiana. It’s been phenominal. Fist brake rotors went 330k! Still original ball joints after years on logging roads. I bought the truck new Halloween day 94. Engine uses no oil, no blow-by, an runs like new. I doubt Ill ever own a product so good again. In fact body integrity is still very tight…drives like new.
Runs on filtered WVO very well.
You got the best of the Toyota motors IMO. Efficient, simple, reliable. As I said friends with the bigger Toys w bigger engines get fewer mpg than I do!