Stability prediction
Less than I’m used too! L
Actually, don’t understand the stability curves that well. Changes too much paddler to paddler. I suppose if you know it for several kayaks you’ve paddled you could apply that to evaluating another hull - but I think I’ll stick to seat of the pants.
My other numbers came from taking a 3D solid model, slicing at the waterline, and calculating all the cross areas, coefficients, etc. Then plugging these into Matt Broze’s spreadsheet. No marine program, no automated calcs direct off the design.
The numbers where a good ballpark to confirm where I was going. Final performance will vary for sure with design changes during build, displacement variations, skin and frame flex, etc.
If it ends up being faster than my QCC 700 it will be very cool. If not, it will still be very cool! To be fair to the QCC - the speed limit there is all me! I don’t really tap it’s potential. A faster hull may not end up being faster with me in it. It will still be nice to have an easier roller and much lighter boat.
Running numbers at all is a bit odd for a SOF (though I saw that John Winters is working on a book about performance of traditional watercraft that will no doubt do exactly that. Should be interesting).
Greenland racing kayaks
If you want the Greenland perspective, many competitors to the Greenland competition bring two kayaks – one optimized for rolling and one optimized for racing.
Most of the racing kayaks are very narrow (hips plus the flat of your hand on each side of the hips) and have a deep-vee hull section. They are fairly deep (good foot room!) and are fairly poor for competition rolling, but roll OK for “survival” (hard to layback). Several that I tried have very good “glide” and were quite fast. Initial stability can be very low. Two of them that I tried tracked like a train and one of them weathercocked badly, even with a skeg (I think the cockpit needed to be further aft for me).
The vast majority of the Greenland “racing” kayaks have an internal or external skeg. The external skegs are tied on with thin line.
Some images that contrast the differences between a Greenland “racing” kayak and a “rolling” kayak are in the album at http://www.qajaqusa.org/gallery/QU2002 (see pages 7 and 8). The kayak shown has an internal skeg (hump in the keel).
Greg Stamer
Greyak / Greg Stamer
I had a chance to paddle for the better part of a day an Impex Outer Island kayak this weekend. would you agree tht this is the closest to a Greenland style boat in production out there or are there others that more closely fit the bill?
Paul
Commercial “Greenland-style” kayaks
Paul,
What kind of performance/handling are you looking for?
The Anas Acuta and Betsie Bay kayaks are perhaps the closest production kayaks to a Greenland kayak that I have seen in the U.S. (but they are still very different from a SOF Greenland qajaq).
The Japanese Qaanaaq line (the ultra-small SS and the larger 512) by Waterfield Kayaks are very good. Maligiaq even asked for one to be shipped to Greenland. I don’t know if any of these kayaks have been shipped to this country. Both models are lower-volume than an Anas Acuta, so might not have much of a market here.
Greg Stamer
Pics
Saw those. Obvious differences there - and I may be crazy to try to split the difference - but performance I’m after lies somewhere in between.
My “racing” is mostly recreational so I’m really not looking for just a deep side/deep V racer.
I’m willing to flatten the bottom a little and give up some speed for better overall manners so I can actually use the boat for more casual and longer day paddles. If racing were really my thing I’d be working with a surf ski after work instead of a mortise chisel!
I would like to be able to work on rolls beyond the basics - but don’t want a low and slow sardine can super roller to just sit just off shore and roll in (at least not for THIS qajaq). I’ll try to get the sheer down a bit for decent rolling that will allow some experimentation/progress, but probably not get me anywhere near the full repertoire. I’m currently not that fit or ambitious anyway.
Design seeks to be neither the fastest, nor the best roller possible. Just reasonably capable in both areas and a major upgrade in terms of reduced volume over my Production boat. That, and I just like long hulls (so far - this one could break that if I mess up - but I could always shorten it later).
Frame modified
The images have been updated to what will be the final rib and deck beam positions (except masik/knee brace may be tweaked last minute). The rest will be trial and error and adjusted by eye.
Wow!
Are they shipping one to him in Greenland? That’s cool! Wish the USA could get some.
sing
Greg
I e-mailed you about this.
Paul
Maligiaq’s Qaanaaq
Sing,
Yes, Eiichi Ito and the Japanese G-style gang are sending Maligiaq Padilla a Qaanaaq, I believe as a gift.
Here’s a promo shot of Maligiaq in the Qaanaaq 512 from the “Greenlanders” website; http://www5c.biglobe.ne.jp/%7Ekayak/qaanaaq/images_qaanaaq/qaanaaq1.gif
Greg Stamer
Very Sweet!
I would love it if some retailer would take the chance in importing some of those. This would be as exciting, if not more, than the anticipated production of the Rumour.
sing
due date
when will mine be ready?
go ahead and mess around with yours, get the kinks out, and give me a date for when mine will be ready.
Paul
(only half kidding)
Getting the kinks out
Yeah, best wait until I see how screwed up it is!
Somehow I think you should pay your dues and build one yourself (and probably something more true than my interpretation). If you’re smarter than me and don’t do it yourself, there are a few guys who build beautiful custom SOF for others. Cheaper than that mass produced stuff you’ve been shopping…
On a related note: Not sure if I adequately warned you about GPs or not. They tend to take control and direct your paddling interests. Here’s a brief history of my GPs influence:
I got it out of curiosity, while still paddling SOTs (and planning to keep doing so), albeit a Kevlar Heritage Shearwater - maybe the only SOT that seems right with a GP. Made for unique combo. Though it would be cool to race them in B&B, but things changed…
GP whispered to me that it wanted a SINK. That it would be more effective if I were closer to the water, with lower deck and narrower beam. That I would have more control, be able to learn more. Do more. I complied. It was right.
Then it pointed out that a Storm paddle would help me to work on a sliding stroke now and then, actually get some use, and so would make a much better spare than the trusty Werner that never came off the back deck after I got the GP. I complied. Again, it was right.
Next it said it would show me how to roll, if I would let it (it actualy has said so much earlier - before the Storm - but I tend to move slowly). I complied (although with little time/effort/or frequency), and again it was right (and again about the Storm - as a super rolling/backup paddle).
Somehow - with only minimal exposure - and being far too big for her - it also convinced Kim to move to a SINK and switch to GPs. She was on a fast, easy to remount, light (33#), glass SOT with carbon paddle so wasn’t suffering much before, but again the GP was right and she’s much happier. Hers then got her to roll.
For over a year now it has been whispering about a SOF. Probably been it’s plan all along. Everything up to now has just been preping me. Time will tell if it again knows best. Odds are good.
nicely said
and pretty much to the point. Mine is whispering narrower beam and lower deck…static brace…
looking at the back yard where it would just fit a rope set…
Paul