Slight disagreement here
First, those aren’t the only two solo canoes that would work well. The OP’s requirements are pretty general, and he could likely do well with several of the small- to medium-sized solo canoes out there. Second, sand is a poor material to use as ballast. Most stock canoes (with no extra flotation installed) will barely float high enough to get the gunwales out of the water when swamped, and some will float even lower, with just one gunwale, or just the tops of the stems above the water’s surface. A canoe in that condition won’t stay afloat at all if there’s much extra weight on board in the form of material that is denser than water (heavy packs are safe, because they invariably float). A swamped canoe carrying sand or rocks is likely to make a one-way trip to the bottom of the river. Using water for ballast is much safer, because if the boat is swamped, the ballast then weighs nothing. Third, I’m not convinced that a 130-pound person needs ballast to get the most from a Wildfire or similar boat in ordinary situations. Lots of people solo-paddle various canoes when lightly loaded (I do it all the time), and have no problems. Ballast is most likely to have value if the wind is very strong. The OP might add ballast when he needs it, but I don’t think there’s any reason to most of the time.
Never ever have I picked a solo
from a printed list. And I do have a dozen
Each was played with and handled and bought not ordered
I feel bad for those of you who have to order from a menu… You know the print numbers tell you about half of the personality of a solo,
Maybe that is why there is so much buying and trying and then discarding.
My boats are with me forever.
Wisconsin Canoe Symposium in June will have plenty of play and try boats and the Western Pennsylvania Solo Canoe Rendezvous is an entirely swop and play, get informal instruction and talk to at least three of solo canoes top designers… They usually do on the grass presentations but too often will come up to you with a block of wood and start designing for you.
I’ll second Kayamedic’s comments
Regarding the Wisconsin canoe symposium or the WPASCR, both coming up in June. The Wisconsin event will feature a class in “Creekin Freestyle” which sounds like it might be right up your alley. Both events will have many boats, that meet your requirements, available to test paddle.
More information about these events can be found on the FreeStyle home page at www.freestylecanoeing.com.
Thanks for all the help so far.
There’s a great liklihood I’ll be in NC on the week of the 30th, so if the odyssey is still available, I will probably snatch it.
I have a couple of reservations about that boat, like, the width for a person my size, and how well it tracks on lakes and such, but at this point, I just want to start learning.
My experience
1. Solo canoe preference is a very individual thing.
2.Particularly if you are new, your skill level and tolerance to tenderness will increase.
3. After you have one for a while, the things you want to do and places you paddle may change.
4. My first solo doesn’t suit me now.
My advise, buy an inexpensive solo somewhere in your size range and get out and paddle it. Don’t worry about buying the “perfect forever” solo, because that is a moving target. Keep learning and go and paddle as many as you can. Enjoy the ride. Once you find one that is a keeper, then you may want to invest in a new, expensive version. I was fortunate to buy a used Bell Flashfire reasonable and became so fond of it that I had Paul from Colden canoe build me a lightweight,dream version o this hull.
Turtle
Quick comment on that part
I have an Odyssey 14, and I paddle it a lot. It's my most-used boat. I agree that it is bigger and wider than what's ideal for you. The good news is that for situations where you won't have a great need for cross strokes (a correction of some kind done on the opposite side of the boat, but without switching your hands), you can sit about two or three inches off-center toward your paddling side, let the boat lean a little, and all will be fine.
The tracking of that boat on lakes is fine. It may not seem that way when you are first starting out, but once the quality of your forward stroke is halfway decent, you'll find it tracks more than comfortably.
Also on the subject of big boats, the Odyssey 14 will be more of a handful in wind than some smaller boats, but I find that correcting for the wind is quite a bit more predictable and straightforward in that boat than is the case for some boats I've paddled that are less bothered by wind overall.
Every factor you can concern yourself with always ends up boiling down to a combination of sub-factors, and everything is always a compromise. This is well illustrated by the wind issue I mentioned above. Overall size of the boat is like that too, and on that same note, there really isn't a strict cutoff on what boat is too big or too small. You'll have to based that decision, as always, on a combination of things.
None of this is likely to matter immediately. The Odyssey 14 is a highly sought-after boat, and it might get snatched up before you get to decide. Of course that means if you can get it and later decide to switch to something with a bit less volume, you should have no trouble selling it for a good price.
A couple of things…
1. To the person who asked: I’m in Mid-Michigan.
2. To those who suggest that the sheer numbers aren’t enough to operate on when making a selection, and that a person must first paddle a boat to ever really know it’s true character: I know this to be true in other arenas, so am not surprised at all.
3. I fully expect that Odyssey to be long gone by the time I get into the Asheville area. I’m keeping my fingers crossed, though.
Again, thanks for all the helpful replies.
Odyssey
If you’re pretty confident you want the Odyssey contact the seller and ask them to hold it. Ten days isn’t very long and I’m sure they’ll be willing, especially if you go ahead and pay now.
That MR Slipper in Ft. Wayne might
be worth the short trip to check it out this weekend.
agree
All my boats have been bought used and most involved a considerable drive. I tell the seller I will take it, sight unseen, reserving the right to refuse only if there’s something major that wasn’t in the pictures or description.
I always offer to pay up front knowing it may be a week until I can actually pick it up. Some are willing to hold it and others aren’t, understandably.
Alan
Yes, Yellowstone Solo or Argosy by
Wenonah would also be adequate to get started. Either of them will have narrower gunwales than the Mohawk Solo 13 or Odyssey and and be easier to reach the water for a relatively small paddler.
The Solo 13 is working your way upstream through boulders for a light person, it will flat spin much easier than either of above two boats.
And one more quick comment
"Try before you buy" is sort of a mantra on this site, especially among the kayakers, and of course some lucky canoers live in places where that’s possible as you’ve now heard. However, even if you had the option to do that, and most of us never do, it’s too early in the game for you to make a proper decision based on a test paddle anyway (learning to paddle reasonably well is going to take a while). So don’t worry about that part. Make a decision the best way you can (based on facts and figures, and on the condition of the boat) and go forward from there.
Several boats in your area
There are 2 or 3 boats on the classified right now that might be of interest to you and are somewhat close by.
TRUTH
I hadn’t seen this until now…
Yanoer said:
“Wenonah would also be adequate to get started. Either of them will have narrower gunwales than the Mohawk Solo 13 or Odyssey and and be easier to reach the water for a relatively small paddler.
The Solo 13 is working your way upstream through boulders for a light person, it will flat spin much easier than either of above two boats.”
With so little knowledge of my own on the subject, a post like this makes me second guess the Odyssey as a potential option…
My attempt at addressing that
The Wenonah boat referred to in Yanoer's post was the Argosy. The Argosy is two inches narrower at the gunwales than the Odyssey 14 (also true for the Solo 13 & 14), and the sides are less deep at the center by one-half of an inch. Depending how much arch there is in the Argosy's bottom, that half-inch might translate to zero, but even if not, that's not much of a difference. That leaves the issue of width. The gunwale width difference translates to one inch per side, and that seems like enough to matter, but here's the thing: Both of those boats have tumblehome, which makes room for your hand alongside the gunwale when the paddle shaft is right against the side of the boat, but the tumblehome on the Argosy is greater. So what really matters, in terms of how far you have to reach when doing a proper stroke (with the paddle shaft vertical as seen from one end of the boat), is the maximum width of the hull. The Odyssey is only 0.25 inches wider in that dimension than the Argosy, and that's just 1/8th of an inch per side. I can't tell you if the extra inch of tumblehome on the Argosy will matter to you. I suspect the difference won't be huge. Finally, the Argosy is advertised as being half a foot longer than the Odyssey 14, but if what I've seen regarding some other Wenonah's is true, the Royalex version will be shorter. In summary, I seriously doubt that a smaller person will see much advantage paddling the Argosy compared to the Odyssey 14. Strictly in terms of paddler fit, it's probably a tossup. If I'm right about that, the main thing that's left to compare is rocker.
One thing I'd want to be careful about on Wenonah boats is whether the advertised amount of rocker is actually there. Looking at a few different kinds of Wenonah boats in composite versus Royalex, I've learned to not expect the Royalex version to have much, if any rocker. However, Argosys are so rare that I've never done an eyeball comparison to see if that's the case with that boat. The 2.5 inches of *advertized* rocker should make it extremely maneuverable, which would be very unlike nearly every other boat of their own design. Is the Argosy actually that maneuverable? I don't know, I've never heard a genuine comment about that. The only comment I've heard on this board is that the Argosy slices through waves rather than ride over them, a trait shared by the Wenonah Vagabond I used to own, but if you aren't paddling Class-II rapids, that may not matter anyway.
Oh, another thing worth mentioning is that a significant amount of tumblehome really isn't conducive to doing pries, and that's also true if you like to ease the burden on your arms when doing a "moving wedge" type of stroke. I'd rather use the gunwale for a fulcrum than the side of the hull when doing those strokes. In that regard, I know the Odyssey 14 (and the other Mohawk models talked about here) work well. I'd have my doubts about the Argosy.
As to the Solo 13 doing a better flat spin than either of the other two, I'm not sure, but if it's true, I doubt that it matters. I can tell you that the Odyssey 14 spins just fine with a light load. It's my go-to boat on tiny creeks, and I think it responds very nicely when tight turns or pivots are required. I believe it has more rocker than the Solo 13 too, but I've never been able to find a specified value for that on their website (I think someone told me that it's 1.75 inches. That figure is probably pretty close to being right). As I mentioned in another post, the Solo 13 will spin wonderfully well when heeled, but the same is true of the Odyssey 14.
Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?
Yanoer forget his meds today…
The chances of finding the solo canoes listed below in decent condition, for under one thousand dollars, is probably about the same as the original posters chances of getting hit by lightning.
I suggest the original poster invest a few hundred dollars in a fair condition, used, “starter” boat.
Just get out on the water & start paddling; preferably with someone more experienced as a mentor.
Use the starter boat for a couple of years, while saving your money. In the interim learning period, paddle every solo you can get your hands on. You’ll soon find one you really like & want. And you’ll have the money to invest.
BOB
:^)
Bell Flashfire
Placid Flashfire
Colden Flashfire
Placid Spitfire
Hemlock Kestrel
If anyone finds a hoard of those canoes listed above, in nice condition, for under a thousand dollars; please give me a holler. I’ll take one of each of the 3 different Flashfires.
Mid-Michigan
is a fine place to be. Join up with Lansing Oar and Paddle Club (LOAPC.org). There is a wide range of paddlers there, A mix of open & closed boaters. You might find someone with a boat he/she may want to part with. older ones though - not many of the upscale ones noted here.
Yellowstone Solo and the skegged stern
Sorry for the diversion, but…
As a Yellowstone Solo owner I may be hypersensitive, but I always get a little miffed when I see someone write that the Yellowstone Solo has a “sticky stern which makes paddling easier for beginners”. There are lots of beautiful boats with skegged sterns (differential rocker) that don’t get tagged as beginner boats – how about the Swift Osprey or the Hemlock SRT. Is the RX Wildfire/Yellowstone Solo different from the composite Wildfire – yes definitely. Was it designed more as a riverboat than a freestyle boat – yes probably. Is it an easier boat for beginners to paddle – I’m not so sure about that.
My whitewater boat is an old Encore, and both the composite Wildfire and the RX Wildfire/Yellowstone Solo track pretty easy compare to that. That doesn’t make them beginner boats though – just different.
OK – rant over, but I always feel the need to stick up for the lowly Yellowstone Solo. Sorry for the diversion.
Fair enough, and a clarification
Notice that I also said that lots of river paddlers really enjoy those boats. But I test paddled one, and didn't like the feel of the stern, and I was hardly the first one here to feel that way (though the topic has faded away in recent years, I seem to remember that one of those folks was Arkay (remember him?)). None of that means that no one else should disagree, which is why I made a point of saying there are people who really like the boat.
I believe Charlie Wilson has first-hand knowledge regarding what was in the mind of the designers when they came up with the shape of the stern of that boat, and he is the one who has always stated that the easier-to-paddle aspect is really what they were shooting for. To my eye, the stern of the Royalex Wildfire/Yellowstone solo really has the appearance of "hanging down" more than what I usually associate with mere differential rocker, but I think part of that appearance has to do with latterally-flattened aspect of the last foot or so of the keel line (that's the skeg-like shape). No other boat has a stern that looks like that, and you can recognize a Royalex Wildfire/Yellowstone solo just by looking at the bottom of its tail.
Still, I didn't intend for this to ruffle anyone's feathers, and hoped recognition of the fact that some people really like that boat would leave room for people to make up their own mind - "two sides to the story" and all that.