canoes
clipper sea-1 is pretty darn nice. Krugers are awesome too, and they turn on a dime. Never tried a Sea-1, so I can’t speak for them. Wouldn’t hurt checking out. Rudders are better than sit and switch, imo.
…nice boats…
Nice boats mentioned Matt. Guess my $.01 would be that…there’s never a “need” to switch when paddling, but it can help if one arm is getting a little tired.
I own a Wenonah Voyager…
that rarely sees use since I’ve bought a GRB Classic XL (http://www.grbnewmandesigns.com/classicxl.htm). The Voyager is fast, but without a load and its high sides it can be a handful in a wind.
The GRB Classic XL is still somewhat effected by the wind, like any canoe, but much less so than the Voyager. Additionally, I find the XL just as fast and slightly more manueverable than the Voyager.
How many “hits” per side do you think
is average for skilled paddlers in straighter tracking boats than the Osprey?
My impression from reading many p.net posts, is that, without any correction in the stroke, with a bent shaft, 3-5 strokes per side before switching is pretty common when sitting.
Bell’s bottoms r.e. Kim & Eric
Before the flood that deposited Bell 200 miles downstream and on the other side of the river, Bell made BlackGold solo hulls of all cloth construction. Kev Krystal hulls, solo and tandem, were foam cored, the foam and foam cover[s] being bagged over the first two, catalyzed, outer layers.
Bell didn’t have a hot box to allow pre-shapping the foam, so the cores were edged, and dropped into a paste of resin and mirco-spheres, the Kevlar cover, release film, breather, bag and then vacuum applied.
When pulled from the mold, the solid core Black Gold were as David Yost wanted. The foam cores in the KK hulls rebounded a bit, flattening the hull bottom.
One can assume that Bell/ORC now has an hot box for foam cores and ribs; that foam cores are pre-shaped to the hull, and that all is fine in LaCrosse except for the Brett Favre thing.
High Hopes
I recently purchased a Wenonah Wilderness but have not yet had it on it’s maiden voyage. I did a bit of research on it before purchase and think it might fit your needs as well. One of the things I did in research was to run my choices of Wenonah boats past the folks at Wenonah via email. They were quick in response and helped in my decision. You could probably do the same with most any manufacturer.
I hope my wilderness will handle the wind OK but may go to a wind cover if needed. I have heard that a kayak paddle may help with control in the wind so I picked one up. Bad thing is that it won’t fit in the boat assembled. Will see how that works out.
Tom
I dont have my Merlin II here
but its a model from 2000 or 2001.
Might go to show how production processes might change and people who have the same boat might not have exactly the same boat. Too bad we sometimes beat up on one another. Might be useful to pay attention to the year in the reviews plus the layup.
Doc CEW has my boat that I hurt.
no sliding seat?
I take it you don’t have a sliding seat in your Osprey? That’s the only reason I can think of for you not being able to handle the way you would like in the wind.
I think Eric hit on key issues in citing
the Magic and the Merlin. To perform well in waves and wind, a canoe can’t be too lightly loaded. The Merlin with one person aboard will sit a little deeper than the Magic, and that can make a lot of difference.
Hull design matters too, obviously, but even if a canoe has sharp ends and a rounded bottom, it will blow around like a kite if it isn’t carrying enough load. We used to rediscover this issue in our 18.5 Moore Voyageur. Loaded with 2 weeks of food and gear, it was steady and dry in whitecaps. But with just two paddlers aboard, it would blow around like a kite. We might have been better off in a 16 foot Wenonah.
The amount of hull exposed to the wind is important also, but our experience suggests that if the boat is properly loaded, high sides are not a big issue.
So, even though it seems like a larger canoe would be drier, it can still make for a wet ride if you can’t maintain course through the waves.
solo for wind
In my experience the Merlin II is already noticably faster and better in wind than an Osprey. The Peregrine is better still…I’ve had mine out in big wind and it behaved beautifully…it has a relatively low rofile with less rocker than Merlin II so the ends don’t get pushed around easily yet it still responds to turning requests. At same time I think a Merlin II handles big wind just fine.
I like boats that can also turn reasonably well. I did not fall in love with the Magic because I felt it did not like to turn plus it required too much muscle to generate speed…I’ve never had a Magic out in serious wind but I would think it would shrug it off.
well…
I got to make a trip up to a dealer in another state that had some boats for me to demo.
They had a Clipper (forget model) but it was a 16.5 foot boat with minimal rocker. Owner said it was very similar to her Wenonah Advantage which she let me demo.
I was really amazed at how different that boat felt from what I have paddled so far!
I guess that the Advantage would be fairly representative of the long / fast / min rocker boats out there such as the Magic and longer Wenonahs.
I found that the thing really sliced through the water and had a totally different feel from what I have paddled so far. Felt like a different beast entirely. Almost felt like what I imagine a surf ski would feel like.
While it was neat I did not care for it. Just did not seem like a canoe anymore! I think that says to me that I may be better off with something less “racey” and more moderated yet still fast…like my Osprey…or a Merlin II or maybe even a Wenonah Prism. Not sure.
Guess I like a boat that is fast yet is not dedicated soley to going fast and straight.
Maybe my tastes will change later. It was kind of cool though. Totally different feel.
Matt
yep
I have one “go fast” boat…a Souris River Jensen Solo 16 (for sale! we are moving).
It’s a bullet and will easily outrun Peregrine and Merlin II (and Prism). It does indeed have a totally different feel…it slices through the water and hums along.
I do like it very much yet I agree that it’s a totally different experience from something like an Osprey or Merlin II.
You might like to try a Sawyer Summersong some day if you get a chance. Fast boat…a bit tippy…but it hums yet still turns better than an Advantage. I think you’d like the feeling of effortless speed.
You should try a Magic if you can
… it’s not racey, but is very capable. I’d love to paddle one out in the snot sometime. Maybe this year.
Congrats on your Guide.
my 2 cents
I own a Merlin II. I have paddled many of the other boats mentioned above.
I found the Magic to be significantly faster than the Merlin II. I paddled it in some wind and it seemed to handle well. Obviously, it is not as maneuverable as the Merlin II. Definitely worth looking at.
The Osprey impressed me as being a very pleasant, good-handling canoe. I think it has a little more stability, and perhaps a little less speed than the Merlin II, but I could be wrong.
The Wenonah Advantage is a lovely and fast canoe. It’s been a while since I paddled one. From my memory it is considerably less maneuverable than the Merlin but probably faster.
The Wenonah Prism wasn’t mentioned, but deserves consideration. A hard-tracking and fast canoe. Not as maneuverable as the Merlin, but you don’t have to switch paddling sides as often. I haven’t paddled one in windy conditions.
The Hemlock Peregrine is a great canoe, probably better than the Merlin II but similar in many ways. I think it is a bit faster than the Merlin yet retains the Merlin’s maneuverability. It seems to have more initial stability than the Merlin, but I think the seat is mounted lower, if memory serves.
A long boat like the Wenonah Voyageur, while fast, can be a real bear in the wind. If the wind is coming from abeam, the boat gets blown sideways so much you have to go twice as far to get where you are going. When trying to reverse course from a tailwind to head back up into the wind, or vice verse, the boat can be very tricky to turn about. In calm conditions, however, it goes like a rocket.
what is…
paddling in the snot? I have never heard that term. Thanks
Bell Magic
I can tell you I’m a devout Magic fan. Been paddling a Kevlight/Kevcrystal for about 4 years now. I have had it in the “snot” as Clarion so aptly put it and I’ve never been felt in dire straights. It holds enough gear for a week in the wilderness, carries nice speed, tracks pretty well, and is pretty happy fully loaded or dead empty.
Now as for the Merlin II, I have probably a grand total of 1/2 hour in one. But a tripping partner from my Boundary Waters adventures paddles one and he is sufficiently happy with it. Hell he won’t stop smiling no matter what the conditions.
Just so you understand how capable we have done 17 mile days with multiple portages, paddled in wind up to 20 mph sustained and gusting well over 30, waves up to 2-feet, and we fish continuously from both boats. To date we don’t have a single “wet exit” in hundreds of hours of combined time on the water, though we have shipped a few gallons over the gunwales!
Randy
Wenonah Wilderness
I paddle on open flatwater near the coast. I’m really happy with my Wilderness with pedestal-mounted bucket seat. You can maneuver it (1.25 in. rocker), and you can trim it easily by moving the seat. The freeboard at the center is 14 in, which is more than many its size.
Since its delivery 6-8 weeks ago I’ve had it out in winds up to 15 mph with gusts in the mid-20s. I haven’t felt in danger yet, and I’m 65.
Another vote on Clipper Sea-1
I’ve paddled a lot of boats in my life and the Sea-1 is a great boat that handles variable conditions well and maintains speed and comfort as well. Grew up racing marathon canoes…spent my 20’s and 30’s teaching and guiding whitewater and touring kayaks and now that I’m 47 and planning a long 30 day flatwater trip, I looked long and hard. I wanted a decked boat that handled weather well, was comfortable and had some speed. Anything is a trade off, but I looked at Kruger designs and really liked them, but the Sea-1 seemed to take those to another level. An increase in speed, well thought out design and great construction is what I found. I hadn’t paddled it before I received it, nor had I paddled the Kruger, but Clipper was kind enough to let me use the Sea-1 and I’ve been more than happy with it since I received it. Paddled in wind and rain using both a bent shaft canoe and a touring kayak paddle. Both worked better than I had anticipated.
Send me an email and I can answer any other questions you have about it.
use rudder in wind and sit and switch
do it all the time in the clipper sea-1. i find i don’t have to think, or pay as much attention. My pea size brain likes not thinking to much
Idle question for CEW
– Last Updated: Apr-20-09 4:12 PM EST –
You mention the "rebound" effect of the foam cores of the KK hulls......Did the foam cause rebound in the BG models as well or did the stiffness of the CF resist that?
I could give a hoot as to the difference between the slight shape differences, as I am quite pleased with my BG Magic. As I said, an idle question.
Jim
Crap - bad speling