I paddled Canoes years back, but have been paddling Sea Kayaks during these in between years, and am ready to make a change back to a canoe… I’m a smaller guy at 5’4", 145 ish #, and will be looking for the Unicorn of an all round, do it all to get back into things. No real white water plans though some moving water and current, lakes and rivers in New England, coastal creeks etc. I’ll be lightly loaded much of the time (me +20#) but will be doing some 3-4 day camping excursions. I am looking for a combination of maneuverability and tracking,dont need a speed demon but not a slug either, lighter weight is a must. I’d like to stick with available boats in my general area. Id like the option to kneel and maybe sit , and also use a double blade in the beginning while i refine and regain my stroke. My goal is to compile a short list of “Cant go wrong” boats. Being my jump back in i realize this will not be my last boat, but a stepping stone.
My initial research has led me to a few boats , but i am hoping others here may have some feedback to help shorten my search. Thus far i’ve started a list including… Swift Osprey or Key14 , and Northstar Trillium. I don’t find a lot of boats with a weight range that seem they are suitable.
I think you are wise to seek a boat that is happy with a light load and I think you now have a fine list of possibilities. I’d lean against a Flashfire for you since it does not track and could be frustrating for you. I know that Osprey and Kestrel are happy with lighter loads since I have owned both. Kestrel would fit you like a glove and you can get some feel for it by looking at the videos on the Hemlockcanoe site. Remember that there is a huge difference in stability between sitting and kneeling so you need to be clear in your own mind about whether you plan to kneel…then test paddle the way you plan to actually use the boat. All the Northstar solos seem to come set up for sitting but maybe you can jam your legs under the seat for a test paddle and kneel like I did.
@Ken C said:
No real white water plans though some moving water and current, lakes and rivers"…I’ll be lightly loaded much of the time (me +20#) but will be doing some 3-4 day camping excursions. I am looking for a combination of maneuverability and tracking,dont need a speed demon but not a slug either, lighter weight is a must. I’d like to stick with available boats in my general area. Id like the option to kneel and maybe sit , and also use a double blade in the beginning while i refine and regain my stroke
Any help or guidance is appreciated.
Pretty much my specs for what I selected and I’ve been pleased. Wenonah Wilderness - solo tripper, 15 feet with a foot bar(standard equip). Add a backhand and double blade and this will cruise. Single blades quite sincely as well. Handles Class I deftly. Ultralight version is 32lbs. 2 position seat which enables low center of gravity sitting or high seat position for kneeling and sitting.
Their solo Vagabond is similar hull, but a foot shorter at 14 feet, and not as deep at center.
@Ken C said:
Id like the option to kneel and maybe sit , and also use a double blade in the beginning while i refine and regain my stroke.
This may be your challenge. For me at least, kneeling requires the seat up high so I can comfortably get my feet under the seat, and more importantly get them out from under the seat in the event of a capsize. This makes the boat less stable when sitting. Most people using a double blade set the seat pretty low. Maybe you have smaller feet, and this will be less of an issue. I guess another option is an adjustable seat like Waterbearer describes, but Wenonah is the only manufacturer that I know of that makes them. A friend of mine had one in an Argosy, and it was heavy and kind of clunky (maybe that has changed)…
If your main interest is kneeling and paddling with a single blade, I definitely second the Flashfire. I’m way too big for the Flashfire, but I love my Wildfire. There are a lot of nice kneeling boats in the 14’ range.
I see a lot of Keewaydin 14’s around here, but they are all set up as pack boats. It’s a little bigger, but the Placid Rapidfire is also popular around here. I’ve never seen anyone kneeling in them - always sitting with a double blade. Lots of options with pack boats as well.
It’s tough for me to make a recommendation since I have 80 lbs on you, but i think TomL is right - the seat position is going to make you decide whether you will mostly paddle with a single or double blade.
If you were looking for a sea kayak. Not the best expedition boat (no bulkheads), but I loved my wilderness system tchika. They seem to be cheep used now-been years since they were made. Designed for about a 145lb paddler.
I paddle a Swift Osprey carbon fusion layup for wildlife watching and bird photography from a sitting position. This outfit weighs 27 pounds and is a joy to load and unload. I am now 74 and have happily paddled this canoe for the past 5 years.
I would suggest you give it a serious look.
Not sure I can add specific recommendations (though I’ve always been tempted by some of Clipper’s smaller designs), but I’d steer away from that Wenonah Wilderness unless you want a boat that’s light on the water even when heavily loaded with camping gear. The Wilderness is a big boat which I heard was specially designed for the “modern-day man”, who typically weighs too much for Wenonah’s Vagabond. It will be a bear in strong wind compared to something that truly fits you.
Thank you for the feedback, suggestions and thoughts. I have been paddling a Valley Anas Acuta Sea Kayak for the past 12 years. Its a 17.5’ x20 inch wide, highly rockered twitt that is a hoot in really bumpy water and surf. But i find myself less willing to travel to the ocean and want to slow things down a bit and enjoy the journey more. That said sitting low with legs outstretched for long periods creates some issues with an old s spine injury. So sitting may work but kneeling opens that spine /femur angle up so i am thinking of starting there. I have been sitting in a Kneeling Chair in my office for many years and really like that position. I’ve often said i’ll never go back to a regular office chair! I was actually experimenting with one half of my kayak paddle this past weekend and actually was quite surprised how well it worked (its been a long time since i have paddled a canoe) ! Not the best shape blade, but i can see a single blade in the future.
I’ll take a peek at the Kestrel as well. Looks like it is just a slight bit smaller than the osprey / Kee15.
I have tried a Vagabond and Wilderness. Wilderness too much volume, the Vagabond just seemed to present to much windage at my weight,
The Flashfire seem interesting, a bit shorter than i would have thought, but might be worth a look .
Its late in the season but i am hoping i may be able to try an Osprey and Kee 15 this Friday. I’m feeling each trial will help learn what i want/like or don’t want like.
Kestral is a great boat, Think of it as a sedan. It is designed for Lake country travel and so would hold a straight course easier than the Flashfire. By comparison Flashfire would be a sports car. Flash will require solid technique, your technique can be a bit more relaxed in the Kestrel but it will respond to solid skills wonderfully. Taking the dog along might require the Wildfire model (14’) which is a larger version of the Flash (13’).
Hi. I’m doing a similar search (see post starting with “Trillium” and including “looking for comments, owners”.
Based on my search so far, you should also look at Northstar - Trillium, Phoenix and possibly their Northwind Solo. There is a New England dealer in Concord NH who has been really helpful - Contoocook River Canoes. I tried the Trillium and liked the boat, but I think I’m a bit big (6’2’ 180-185lbs) for it. The one I tried was configured for sitting (like you I prefer kneeling) but still felt really nice. It’s fairly not tall, which is nice if you want to occasionally use a double blade. Very good secondary stability and really well built pretty boat. I’m hoping to try the Phoenix and Solo soon.
Folks have also recommended the Swift Keewaydin in 14 & 15 foot lengths and the Swift Osprey. I tried the 15 at Collinsville Canoe and Kayak in CT. It’s a bit bigger than the Trillium so fit me a bit better. Paddled with my 40lb Corgi and without. It was configured so could kneel (sliding seat). Handled well. Still looking though.
I’ll be posting comments in the other thread as I continue the journey. I’ll watch for your’s here. Good luck.
Thank you for the feedback, suggestions and thoughts. I have been paddling a Valley Anas Acuta Sea Kayak for the past 12 years. Its a 17.5’ x20 inch wide, highly rockered twitt that is a hoot in really bumpy water. But i find myself less willing to travel to the ocean and want top slow things down a bit and enjoy the journey more. That said sitting low with legs outstretched for long periods creates some issues with an old s spine injury. So sitting may work but kneeling opens that spine /femur angle up so i am thinking of starting there. I was actually experimenting with one half of my kayak paddle this past weekend and actually was quite surprised how well it worked (its beena long time since i have paddled a canoe) !
Keith… Heading to Collinsville tomorrow to try the 15 and Osprey. They don’t have a 14 right now but Melissa mentioned she could have one in Dec, but of course not sure of possibility of demoing it depending on ice. I’m in touch with Contoocook see how weather and schedule fares to try the Trillium. I think you and i share a common affiliation from years back at the NSPN club on the Northshore?
Tom/Dave/Others… The Kestrel looks interesting but my guess is i’ll have a harder time finding a demo in my area (Western Mass), but i’ll be keeping my eyes out and will see how these others feel.
As i’ve been away form Canoes for so long, i’m not sure how critical my evaluation skills will be outside of the obvious, buit it should be fun…
I know a number of former whitewater kayakers who had to go to a canoe because of back problems. Also know some former whitewater open boaters who had to go to kayaks because of knee problems (whitewater canoes are always paddled kneeling).
At your size, many solo canoes are going to be too big for you. The issue is going to be more the width than the length. When kneeling in a canoe you want your knees out in the chines for maximum control and stability. If the hull is too wide it will either be uncomfortable or impossible to do this.
If you have a relatively short torso and short arms, many boats might also be too deep. You won’t need a great deal of depth for your intended use, and you want to be able to easily reach over the gunwales to place your paddle. More depth also means more free board for wind to catch on flat water.
Ideally, you would also like to have a hull narrow enough to execute cross strokes. These might be new to you if you have not paddled solo canoes before, or have not done so for a long time. Cross strokes require you to cross your paddle over the hull without changing hand positions on the single-bladed paddle. A boat that is deeper or wider than ideal will inhibit your ability to do this. Cross strokes can become important in moving water.
Of the boats suggested so far, I would be most inclined to endorse the Kestrel and the Flashfire.
Add a used Curtis Lady Bug to your search list. I’m 5’6" and 160 lbs and mine fits me quite nicely. It’s a joy to paddle. Handles wind nicely. Mine is the lighter version at 32 lbs. Easy to turn or keep straight. Loves a single blade or double blade paddle. Quite efficient for cruising.
A kevlar Wenonah Sandpiper should also be on your list, a very nice fit for smaller paddlers. I have a royalex version and would love to have a kevlar version.
I also have a kevlar Bell Magic that I greatly enjoy paddling. It may or may not seem a bit big to you. I don’t use it on twisty rivers, but other people do.
Bell Flashfire would likely delight you. Similar to the Curtis Lady Bug in many respects, but requires a bit more paddling skill.
A Bell Yellowstone Solo may seem a bit large for you, mine always feels a bit large on me.
All of the above boats can have a foot brace installed for added power and control when paddling seated, rather than kneeling, if you like to do so.
@Ken C said:
Keith… Heading to Collinsville tomorrow to try the 15 and Osprey. They don’t have a 14 right now but Melissa mentioned she could have one in Dec, but of course not sure of possibility of demoing it depending on ice. I’m in touch with Contoocook see how weather and schedule fares to try the Trillium. I think you and i share a common affiliation from years back at the NSPN club on the Northshore?
Tom/Dave/Others… The Kestrel looks interesting but my guess is i’ll have a harder time finding a demo in my area (Western Mass), but i’ll be keeping my eyes out and will see how these others feel.
As i’ve been away form Canoes for so long, i’m not sure how critical my evaluation skills will be outside of the obvious, buit it should be fun…
Ken
Very helpful people at Collinsville. I demoed the Swift Osprey, Kee 15 (pack and traditional) and Shearwater there. I’m on the heavier side so the Osprey didn’t cut it for me. I really liked the Keewaydin and Shearwater, but ultimately chose the Keewaydin. I was torn between the pack and traditional and the owner said why not do both? So I bought the traditional with the sliding seat and ordered a pack seat. Depending on my mood and purpose it only takes a few minutes to remove the regular seat and drop in the pack seat, or to take out the pack and install the regular one. I have the pack seat held in place with industrial grade velcro. Works great. The seat doesn’t budge.
I think that being on the lighter side you will probably finding yourself preferring the Osprey.
Well, i found out after doing some demo’s, that while i prefer kneeling, the most or all (depending on boat) will be seated. It seems my knee cannot quite cope with the typical kneel position. I did have some ideas that may allow me to tweak to improve my position, but i was quite comfortable sitting in the Kee15. Great secondary , and with the cross wind i has seemed nicely balanced. I did some sit and switch, and brought a kayak paddle and used that as well. Any of the J or other strokes are gonna take some practice. Oddly enough i preferred the Kee15. The Osprey Paddled much different to me anyway. That said, i have not been in a canoe in 25 years so i am really starting from scratch. The staff that helped me at Collinsville was really helpful. He’s my height and has paddled a 15 for a number of years.
It sounds like you have found your boat Ken. The Kee 15 is an awesome boat! Very stable so great for sitting, quick and fast, friendly, light and well made. Should be prefect for naps too. You can always set it up for kneeling later if you decide that you want to.
@TomL said:
It sounds like you have found your boat Ken. The Kee 15 is an awesome boat! Very stable so great for sitting, quick and fast, friendly, light and well made. Should be prefect for naps too. You can always set it up for kneeling later if you decide that you want to.
If i go with the Kee15 i had thought trying some contoured knee blocks that would allow me to open up the angle a bit. With no padding my knees just kept slipping forward. With my height and the adjustable seat i think it would work fine without affecting stability and give me that option. And i am really liking the weight in Carbon Innegra Textreme . I also think the wife could enjoy this boat too. As we all know, that is a process
