Older model SOT kayaks all had molded plastic “footboards”. These were as sturdy as the kayak itself, allowing proper paddling technique with a driving stroke-side leg which initiates the hip rotation for torso power. All it required was adjusting the seat position to get the correct leg extension for full-contact paddling. (and a good set of thigh straps)
All of the newer SOT kayaks have cheapo “adjustable footboards” that aren’t functional footboards at all… they are foot RESTS, nothing more. They are inexpensive pegs mounted on a floppy, inexpensive plastic rail. This is true of even the best SOT kayaks… Jackson, Old Town, Perception, Wilderness, Ocean… A driven stroke-side leg on these fake boards would tear it off the side wall.
My Question: There are plenty of study aluminum rail systems with a double row of anchors (Example: http://scotty.com/product/no-340-track-adaptor-copy-copy/ ). It should be easy to remove the floppy cheap OEM system and upgrade it. Does anyone make an equally sturdy footrest for these replacement rail systems?
I can’t recall having seen any of these older SOTs with the foot boards. Have photos you can post?
The standard now definitely seems to not use these. For proper torso rotation you generally just need something you can push your feet off of, not something that your feet are strapped to, so having pedals or molded in foot slots are often enough.
Surf skis do have a type of foot board that is strapped to your feet, but that is because they are also controlling a rudder along with getting the contact for torso rotation. The standard for them is to have a system that allows the foot board to adjust position forward and backward (not adjust seat position, which could impact boat trim, which would affect efficiency).
Wave skis (basically surf boards with seats added) also use foot straps, but they aren’t boards. They also often use seat belts. The foot straps and seat belts are made to lock in the paddler so they can maneuver the board for surfing (serious edging).
@Peter-CA said:
I can’t recall having seen any of these older SOTs with the foot boards. Have photos you can post?
The standard now definitely seems to not use these. For proper torso rotation you generally just need something you can push your feet off of, not something that your feet are strapped to, so having pedals or molded in foot slots are often enough.
Surf skis do have a type of foot board that is strapped to your feet, but that is because they are also controlling a rudder along with getting the contact for torso rotation. The standard for them is to have a system that allows the foot board to adjust position forward and backward (not adjust seat position, which could impact boat trim, which would affect efficiency).
Wave skis (basically surf boards with seats added) also use foot straps, but they aren’t boards. They also often use seat belts. The foot straps and seat belts are made to lock in the paddler so they can maneuver the board for surfing (serious edging).
I think the OP is referring to foot pegs & foot slots/notches, when saying footboards and just didn’t know the proper terminology. I think they like the molded in notches and dislike adjustable position pegs.
One of my paddling buddies has an older model Ocean Kayak Scupper Pro with the molded in foot slots. I think that’s what the OP is referring to? Strong…yes, but not adjustable. Wonderful if your leg length fits the foot slots.
Both my Necky SOT and my Eddyline SOT have adjustable foot pegs that slide on double row tracks. I have found them to be perfectly sturdy for paddling. I’ve definitely jammed on them while paddling. I’ve never felt as though they would tear off the side wall. Curious…has the OP had one fail, or seen one fail?
@billder99 said:
Older model SOT kayaks all had molded plastic “footboards”. These were as sturdy as the kayak itself, allowing proper paddling technique with a driving stroke-side leg which initiates the hip rotation for torso power. All it required was adjusting the seat position to get the correct leg extension for full-contact paddling. (and a good set of thigh straps)
@billder99 said:
Older model SOT kayaks all had molded plastic “footboards”. These were as sturdy as the kayak itself, allowing proper paddling technique with a driving stroke-side leg which initiates the hip rotation for torso power. All it required was adjusting the seat position to get the correct leg extension for full-contact paddling. (and a good set of thigh straps)
@Peter-CA said:
I can’t recall having seen any of these older SOTs with the foot boards. Have photos you can post?
The standard now definitely seems to not use these. For proper torso rotation you generally just need something you can push your feet off of, not something that your feet are strapped to, so having pedals or molded in foot slots are often enough.
Hi Peter (and others),
Sorry for the slow reply. Yes, the molded foot slots are what I am referring to on older SOT plastic kayaks. These work, but they are not great. I’m just searching for a more supportive and stable surface for a solid foot push on one of the newer SOT designs…
The negative comments (“cheap”, “pool toy”) are disappointing… I thought this would be a more supportive group. I enjoy all paddling craft… my primary interest is spearfishing and freediving, and a SOT kayak is the perfect work platform for these activities. My kayak (Cobra Tourer… 15’ x 28", 50#) is just about perfect for the Sea of Cortez… I paddle respectable distances (now doing 5 miles each way) in less-than-perfect conditions, I wrestle large fish into submission on a single breath of air, and return to share my catch with family and friends… pretty cool endeavor if you’ve never tried it. On top of that I am working to become a competent paddler, really enjoying the sport.
@Raftergirl said:
One of my paddling buddies has an older model Ocean Kayak Scupper Pro with the molded in foot slots. I think that’s what the OP is referring to? Strong…yes, but not adjustable. Wonderful if your leg length fits the foot slots.
Both my Necky SOT and my Eddyline SOT have adjustable foot pegs that slide on double row tracks. I have found them to be perfectly sturdy for paddling. I’ve definitely jammed on them while paddling. I’ve never felt as though they would tear off the side wall. Curious…has the OP had one fail, or seen one fail?
Thanks Raftergirl… the molded slots are not ideal, but I make them work by adjusting the position of my seat to a correct leg position. Then, the next closer slot means a higher knee but this is obviously not an issue on an SOT, and it’s nice to be able to move back and forth between these positions for an occasional rest. Your Necky SOT… do you have one of the Vector’s?.. nice boats.
Regarding the adjustable foot pegs on the newer designs, I have tried a number of them… in short order I suspect I would tear these rails off the sidewall, too much movement in the poor anchoring systems. I found these Werner braces, actually made by Yakima (http://topkayaker.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_136&products_id=1053&zenid=i1ntjbn8vvqaa113uhpesv6eh4). These look fairly sturdy, but still only a single row of 4 anchor holes… I’d like to see 2 rows of 6-8 anchors each row… THAT would be a well anchored track.
I have to agree with those who say that any boat for which seat adjustment is the way in which proper fit for your legs is made, is built that way only to cut costs. For anyone who actually wants performance from their boat, being forced to put up with whatever kind of trim they get as a result of making adjustments for leg length would be unacceptable. I face a similar situation with my rowboats, and to me, proper trim is imperative. I wouldn’t consider owning a boat for which seat position and footrest position were not independently adjustable. Also, in the 15 years I’ve been on this site I haven’t heard of foot-peg rails breaking on a good boat (or any boat that I can think of, actually).
Actually, in thinking about it more, trim just happens to end up being good when the seat in my rowboats is set to match my arms to the oarlocks, but in the same manner as trim, it’s totally necessary to have two independent adjustments.
There’s a place for cheap boats that have mediocre performance, and for many people they are fine, but by the same token, there are also boats that are far better and which appeal to people who demand more, and there is nothing wrong with that either.
I looked at the Ocean Tetra SOT to get an idea of what the OP is talking about. Johnson uses Support Track Foot Brace Systems on their boats and I agree they are garbage. My first kayak, a Necky Rip 10, had those installed. I broke off the left foot pedal the second week I had the boat. While the rail never came off the boat, those foot braces are low quality and poorly designed. Necky sent a replacement part and I fixed it, but stopped paddling that boat soon thereafter.
I have no experience with the Keepers XL Footbrace Kit used on other SOTs but can’t imagine a quality foot brace attachment rail being ripped off the side of the hull.
You don’t need brute strength force from the foot to initiate hip rotation.
@billder99 said:
The negative comments (“cheap”, “pool toy”) are disappointing… I thought this would be a more supportive group. I enjoy all paddling craft… my primary interest is spearfishing and freediving, and a SOT kayak is the perfect work platform for these activities. My kayak (Cobra Tourer… 15’ x 28", 50#) is just about perfect for the Sea of Cortez… I paddle respectable distances (now doing 5 miles each way) in less-than-perfect conditions, I wrestle large fish into submission on a single breath of air, and return to share my catch with family and friends… pretty cool endeavor if you’ve never tried it. On top of that I am working to become a competent paddler, really enjoying the sport.
B99, you don’t paddle pool toys . I paddle SOT also and none are WalMart specials. I don’t understand your comment about not supportive.
@Rookie said:
I looked at the Ocean Tetra SOT to get an idea of what the OP is talking about. Johnson uses Support Track Foot Brace Systems on their boats and I agree they are garbage. My first kayak, a Necky Rip 10, had those installed. I broke off the left foot pedal the second week I had the boat. While the rail never came off the boat, those foot braces are low quality and poorly designed. Necky sent a replacement part and I fixed it, but stopped paddling that boat soon thereafter.
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I have an Ocean Kayak, Tetra SOT…I use it for floating the flats fishing and snorkeling from. You’d have to be a real klutz, ham fisted, flailing over muscled beast to break my foot pegs off. This is a sport of finesse not strength. I don’t know what y’all are talking about. I dislike paddling the boat distance. Resistance is light but it doesn’t track. It is limited by length. …and I’m a little heavy for a 12’ boat. But for paddling I have more technical boats. Wife uses it for paddling the dog around and work outs.
You’d have to be a real klutz, ham fisted, flailing over muscled beast to break my foot pegs off.
Maybe I’m klutzy at times, but no ham fists, don’t flail, nor am I an over-muscled beast (although I am trying to build some muscle). The problem with the Support Track foot brace is that thin red plastic lever. It was not flush when I got the boat and when the lever was pulled out and up to adjust the location of the foot rest, it would bend. Left one finally broke off.
Overstreet, I started this thread because I do use a good bit of force on the foot-slots, foot-pegs, whatever is handy. This is due to coaching I received on high angle technique… “break the boards” driving the stroke side hip and torso rotation… maybe I take that too literally, but I have found this works well in steering the boat with no rudder or skeg… strong torso rotation comes from the leg. Ham fisted klutz?.. I’m probably that too.
@billder99 said:
Overstreet, I started this thread because I do use a good bit of force on the foot-slots, foot-pegs, whatever is handy. This is due to coaching I received on high angle technique… “break the boards” driving the stroke side hip and torso rotation… maybe I take that too literally, but I have found this works well in steering the boat with no rudder or skeg… strong torso rotation comes from the leg. Ham fisted klutz?.. I’m probably that too.
You might want to think about where all that force applied to the footbraces is going. You can only apply a few pounds of force via the paddle blade in the water, and because of the “reverse” mechanical advantage in how your hands are positioned on the paddle shaft, the force applied by your hands is greater that that applied to the water via the blade. Even so, total force on the paddle shaft isn’t all that high. Any force applied to the footbraces that is in excess of that applied to the paddle is surely being wasted just pushing yourself against the back surface of the seat. What can that force accomplish? Well, it imparts a stretching stress on the boat, but that won’t make it go any faster. I agree with overstreet here, that brute force probably is not what you need.
Thanks guys, maybe I’m overdoing it. This is now I have been steering… now that I have some miles on my paddle, I will try a gentler leg-drive, see what results I get. Week after next I am going out for a 6-day guided kayak-camping trip around islands in the see of Cortez… the guides are very experienced and do coaching… I should see some improvement on that trip.
