HI! My fiance and I are preparing to buy our first kayaks. We DO NOT want tandems. We were looking at SOB kayaks, but then I read that SOT are better for fishing. We plan to paddle on slow water river and probably a max of class II water in SW PA. We were looking at the perception sundance for me and the perception patriot for him ( I am small and he is big). Can anyone out there help us out, please? Thanks in advance!!!

“SOB” kayak???
Is that "Sit out Back " ??

Please enlighten this newbie !



Sit on the Bank.

I once had a kayak that was a real SOB.

“Sit on bottom”? More commonly referred to as a “sit in kayak” or SINK.

Come to think of it, that SOB I used to have really did paddle like the kitchen SINK.

For more knowlegable answers …
About fishing etc …

go to

Seems like they might be a bit biased
on that site, considering the name, and her question between SOT and SINK’s, don’tcha think?



Sit on Top
OK please don’t tell my friends because I’m not sure I’m ready to come out to the entire paddling public.


It is really great for fishing in shallow water where you might have to get out and wade a lot or get out to drag over shallow areas. Mine is very stable and handles rough water pretty well too. I can stand up in it, but I wouldn’t stand up to cast that way. If the river has logs across it then a SOT makes moving forward a breeze compared to any other boat.

They don’t hold near the amount of gear that a canoe or SINK will so you’ll have to take less. For weekend fishing trips an SOT with careful packing will work fine. For weeklong trips I’d rather have the canoe. For day trips the SOT is ideal.

In general they are slower than touring kayaks but not slower than most fishing kayaks or canoes. My Bic Scapa is faster than my Canoe and my old Pungo Kayak.

On think I’ll add ius that some boats are too heavy, don’t get one over 50 to 60 pounds. You just won’t use it as much.

Look at Wilderness Systems
Tarpons SOT or Hurricane Phoenix .

I like your defination !
I use that one every so often, when some Buba cuts his big honking power boat too close to my J190 solo racing canoe.



Your climate

– Last Updated: May-05-09 9:32 AM EST –

The one thing that jumps out at me is that you guys are from the northeast. While a chilly wet day is still a chilly wet day, having the lower part of your body protected from wind and rain (latter with a skirt) slightly extends your season and slightly simplifies your clothing needs. It also leaves some amount of your body protected should you capsize and be paddling back home wet.

The last time I showed early signs of hypothermia was on a summer day after a storm had dropped the air temps to the upper 60's wearing a full wetsuit and a drytop.

Note that I am only saying "slightly". To really paddle a full three seasons you'll need to go for some big guns on your clothing no matter what kind of boat, because the water will be cold enough in early spring or late fall that it'll be what most consider drysuit temps. But a SINK will be a little kinder to you should you get caught out in a surprise rainstorm or whatever - you can pull up the skirt to keep your lower body warm and just focus on a garment to keep your torso warm.

I would also suggest that you avoid any class 2 moving water until you've had some training. You can get into plenty of trouble in class 2 if you haven't learned some basics of spotting eddies and handling small pour-overs - new paddlers tend to underrate the risk of class 2.

What has been your prior experience in a kayak?

I have both a sit in and a sit on. I dont know what an SOB is in kayak terms. I like the SOT for fishing and mine is a good all around paddler. It is a deep seat low CG 16’x25" Kaskazi Dorado designed for fishing. It does a lot very well but it is not the perfect boat for all uses. I still paddle my Caribou when we are just touring which for us is day tripping up to 25 miles round trip. If I could only have one boat, I would choose the SOT. I do paddle it all year but I live in Arizona and do not contend with really cold weather. In winter, I wear a wet suit. If I were in colder climes I would wear a dry suit.

I don’t mean to be a smart aleck but
have you at least considered the merits of a tandem canoe for what you want to do?

When it comes to fishing:

much easier to carry multiple poles, etc.

can stand to cast

much easier to access gear

one person can stabilize boat while another has a

fish on the line

the other person is right there to help land

a fish

you don’t have to worry about where to put the



one canoe is cheaper that 2 kayaks

canoe will keep you warmer than a SOT in PA

2 canoe paddles are way cheaper than 2 kayak


a canoe that is good for fishing will be much

more likely to be good for Class II than a kayak

that is good for fishing

I mention this only because kayaks have been so “oversold” relative to canoes that some people tend to forget that they even exist, or are led to believe that they are somehow “obsolete” and thus dismiss them from consideration.

Was in a race over this past weekend.
and the largest class was mixed C-2.

The smalllest was the female K-1

Canoes rule when it comes to log hopping on wilderness rivers.



Canoe log Hopping

Since I got my SOT I’ve been having a quiker time with log hopping than even the canoe. If you ever get to the eastern side of the state. I’d love to go paddling with you and pick your brain a little.

How do you hop the logs quicker froma canoe than from a SOT. One thing I’ve noticed with the SOT is that I can just flop right into it from a log and get back in very quickly.


Yes you are absolutely right.

– Last Updated: May-06-09 8:34 AM EST –

I wasn't referring to a SOT.
I was comparing getting out of a SINK to getting out of a canoe.

I have a SOT, and that definitely is the quickest. The only problem is it is also the slowest straight out paddling.

We get down to your neck of the woods two or three times a year.


Not really
People there paddle both, and actually know the advantages and disads of each instead of talking out there a$$.

ALso look at the Native boats
They have a selection of good fishing kayaks and some (like the Manta Rays) are actually okay on up to about class II.

Went out yesterday on a strong class I / easy class II run and one of the guys was in a 14 foot Manta Ray that performed respectably.

They also have smaller boats like the 12 footer that would be a good compromise for fishing and whitewater and those aren’t quite as heavy.

If you go SOT, you’ll probabably want to get at least a wetsuit and maybe a drysuit for extending your season and staying comfy. You may want that either way if you are doing whitewater in PA.


And I’ve seen both SOBs and SOTs
out on the water. I generally like the SOTs and stay away from the SOBs.

jim :wink:

what do you do with SOBs on SOTs?

You are all awesome!
You have all given us good points to think through.

To pblank, my fiance agrees with you and I do too, however, I can’t carry a canoe on my own.

I liked the idea of having my own boat, but I probably don’t really need one.

Thanks to EVERYONE for your input.

P.S. Has anyone ever paddled anywhere or stayed in the Adirondacks, NY? THANKS!!!