I have owned SOT for several years
and haven’t tried reentry but a few times, none successfully. with my SINK , I was able to master reentry with a paddle float in one session, BUT it was not in rough water.
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Why not get a solo canoe?
From Ken Whiting - A qualified instructo
Getting back in an SOT …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmaNBXEa_yQ
Oh yeah-Looks like he’s got it down pat!
– Last Updated: May-10-11 8:29 AM EST –
If the objectives of the OP is commuting, affordable pricing, ease of use, coupled with some limited physicality aspects--Then what's the big deal???
Should she really start out in a performance oriented sink, and hope to master an accelerated learning curve?--I don't think so.
I also own both sinks and sots. In fact, here's some pics of my Scupper Pro Classic. It's down in Florida now at my brother's place. But I started out using it in the North Atlantic, Long Island Sound, and the Hudson River--From Sept to December, I usually paddled it in sight of land, and I wore just a shorty wetsuit with a few extra nylon layers.(Before I finally caved in and saved to buy myself a dry suit--Excuse the fact that I crossed out the numbers on the NY license, but I still have the same plates--and this is the Internet, after all). (Corrected link below.)
http://community.webshots.com/user/spiritboat
All these wonderful SOT cliches of disadvantage! My, my..."SOTs are all barges and slow" Really? When I finally buy the Kaskazi I've had my eye on, we'll have to get together for a race--Bring your wallet. I don't make bets without bucks to back them..."SOTs are not suitable for areas with northern colder water"..."SOTs have no deck hatches(see pictures above)..."With no underdeck, you can't roll an SOT and you'd drop out of the kayak while capsized." Answer: Thighbraces.
Not too long ago, I parted with an RTM Disco(SOT). I reluctantly sold the boat, because I put on a little extra weight and frankly, needed some extra bucks more than the boat. But what I loved about its 14 feet L/26 inch beam, is that I could easily keep up/surpass most average seakayaks in the up to 16' range. (A strong, good paddler in a good boat could easily blow me off--But many average skilled, no-roll-out-of-shape folks could not. Whats more, I could fall off the side and go for a cooling off swim anytime I chose to, without having to go ashore--I bring snorkel and fins along all the time on an SOT.) My point with all of this is not to impress anyone, but to impress the fact on the OP, that you don't need to "grow into a boat" before you can start enjoying one properly. Which is why I'm going to make another boat suggestion...an inflatable kayak. And since you laud the advice of female paddlers, I have appropriate referrals:
First, go to topkayaker.net and read everything you can about Audrey Sutherland and all her water miles covered solo in inflatable kayaks. Two, check out Kira Salak's 600 mile accomplishment through West Africa in a 10' Innova Safari(on Innova's website.) And three, watch the woman's testimonial video about the SE 330(a new boater)on Sea Eagle's website. These are by no means fast, sleek touring boats. But they may be the ticket to get you affordably and competently on the water for your commute. I started in a Sevylor Orange Torpedo for about a hundred bucks. I now own 7 boats, kayaks and canoes...Good luck!
What’s Wrong With You!?
I still have my disco and my two scupper pros. On the other hand, pretty much got rid of all my SINKs except for a plastic mystic.
Cost to fun factor way is better than with most SINKs. With the “skill and physical factors”, it’s pretty much independent of what type of craft. See folks out there who think if they enough of the “right” equipment they are “sea kayakers.” 
sing
I concur.
I’ve seen a lot of folks out there with “the right equipment” but not the “right stuff.” And it’s usually been very expensive equipment along with a very expensive lesson(or paid lessons)to have learned. I’m sure the Pnet kayak classifieds are riddled with their boats.
…And I sold the Disco, because I want to get a Midway!
SOT v SINK
Having been mostly in the SINK camp from above… it’s not that a SOT would not work for what you want to do and more. I am guilty of making an assumption, that you were trying to keep the dollars way way down. I just looked around at the prices of some of the better SOT’s recommended here, and the prices new are coming in at 7 hundred plus. That’s considerably more than you have to pay for a really beat, very basic SOT that fulfills all of the stereotypes.
Basically, a new SOT like the Scupper Pro, well featured, comes in at about the same price that friends of ours regularly pick up used plastic SINK’s like the Valley Avocet etc. So it is a tough call between the two on price alone if you are talking about a boat that will be satisfactory for a longer hold. Especially if you are on the RI/CT shore.
So to revisit this one - either would work but in both cases, given your location, it’d be best to take advantage of demo opportunities etc. May is when many of these happen.
One thing that was not mentioned above - from the point of view of this white haired female, SINK’s are much easier to cartop. Slightly longer even better, with perimeter line and of course there is the cockpit itself to hold halfway up. Using a set of rollers that temporarily clip over the rear of the vehicle and blankets, I can slide a sea kayak up and down myself. A SOT tends to be heavy and have less to grip. So I can get a 16 and 17 ft kayak on and off the car myself just by allowing a little more time than I would with assistance. But I find it nearly impossible to heft the 10 ft plastic rec boats or many SOT’s because of the combination of the weight and lack of things to grab.
So - get into some boats and don’t take any advice too seriously except to get some work in self-rescue. See how the boats feel to you and go from there.
Everyone is Making Excellent Points
spiritboat - great video - thanks. I can’t access the photo, tho - could you try again?
I will be kayaking in a sheltered estuary - hard to describe. Although there are currents and winds, on one side it’s protected by the drawbridge in downtown Mystic followed by over a mile of twists, and on the other side it eventually ends up in a muddy shallow area. We’re quite far from the mouth of the river and it’s curvy, so the chances of being blown to sea are null.
That said, after pricing kayaks, expenses need to play a huge role (or… “roll”!?) in this. Some of my friends have already asked me to go kayaking with them. So I do worry that if I start with a SOT and want to get a sit-in, I won’t be able to do it and i’m stuck. My $$ is very dire right now. I can charge about $800 total - kayak, gear, etc.
If I transport the kayak beyond my road - ie with car - i have a tiny old rag top - so I think i can put it in the passenger seat and strap it in. I’ve done it with 10’ christmas trees much to the amusement of passersby.
Next week I am going to try out a sit-in with an instructor with whom I forewarned of my weight issue. We’ll see how it goes. The other thing, too is that I am losing weight. I’ve lost almost 70 pounds and have around 50 more to go - so I don’t want to make a decision based upon a weight that is gradually decreasing.
I so appreciate all of the time you’ve taken to write in. I will update this thread after I’ve had my day with the instructor and let you know if I fit, and if I can do a self-rescue. THANK YOU!
Five to eight minutes for the commute?
Get a SOT, maybe a used one, and see how you like it. I bet you will like it just fine! I assume you have a backup mode of commuting for days when weather makes paddling a dicey way to go.
You can always sell the SOT if you later decide to get a SINK.
As for lessons, I think they’re well worth the fees. But only if the instructors are good. If the ones you talked to are so dead-set against the SOT, talk to other instructors.
Additional Cost W/ SINKs…
– Last Updated: May-09-11 4:20 PM EST –
You should get whatever you feel appropriate for your needs/goals, be it SOT or SINK. If the latter, be aware that there are additional costs (not necessarily "optional") for SINKs, including: spray skirt/$100, pump/$25, paddle float/$25, higher price for either a double tunnel drytop (or drysuit) to minimize seepage down the skirt.
With SOT, you definitely have no need for a sprayskirt or pump. If you learn and are able to "swim" onto your SOT, you'll not need a paddlefloat either for re-entry.
A big part of why I have come to like SOTs is in fact that is less gear involved. With SINKs, I experienced getting to the launch and realizing that I had forgotten my skirt and/or pump and deciding I can't chance going out without that equipment. With the SOT, it's just the boat, paddle and wetsuit.
sing
PS. I can roll my SOTs with attached thigh straps but this not something to expect a beginner to learn to do. Easier to learn a roll with a SINK.
PPS. It's worthwhile to check craigslist for RI, CT and MA regularly. You'll likely find something in your price range if you have some patience. I got my first scupper pro SOT for $350 and my second one for $300. Both were in very good to excellent shape. I also got my Disco SOT brand new for $525 from a dealer at the end of the season.
cost etc…
With either type of boat, you still need PFD and paddle. The only difference is the skirt. Buying used, you may luck out with getting the skirt included.
Pump and paddle floats are extra. But I’ve seen people go without. A milk jug with the top cut off will bail water too, if not quite as handy as a bilge pump. Instead of spending $20 for a paddle float, a medium dry bag filled with shipping peanuts can do double duty.
Don’t get too hung up on which type to get. Let the price be the guide. Whichever you find first within your budget (and fits you), get it. If you grow out of it, you can always sell it to re-coup the money.
RTM Disco
what’s a reasonable weight limit on the Disco? might be an option to consider for the OP, but I too found it appealing; saw one recently for $550 new, and it actually weighs the same as a SINK of the same length.
Reasonable for me was
a paddler weight of 175-185 lbs(which is the range I’m back in now, thankfully.) Bear in mind that you can not carry around a lot of stuff on top of that and expect the same performance(maybe +30 lbs more, give or take)…So lightweight(if not ultra-lightweight on-board gear)is all one can expect in regard to overnight camping trips, etc. (Something I do a good deal of.)Fuhgetabout packing water/tons of food. A beginner may find it tippy–My older brother refused to even try paddling it away from the beach. It’s a joy to day paddle though, especially in the rough stuff.
–That’s a great price, take it!
oceanview-link to photo corrected(nm)
the only problem
I can see is that many modern SoT are high up to keep the paddler dry, but this makes them top-heavy.
The older SoT’s (like the OK-Scrambler), are very stable but you sit in a puddle of water because they are low.
SoTs are very easy to enter and exit! SinKs are more difficult, especially for overweight women. I see my daughter’s mom struggle every time seh tries to exit her SinK. I just turn and step from my SoT.
So it’s a trade-off.
As for the instructor…
Sounds like the kind of person who thinks “there is only ONE WAY and that way is MINE and anyone who thinks that paddling is an individualistic sport is crazy and suicidal!!!”
I knew an instructor like that. If you wore open-tioed sandlas, she’d refuse to let you near a boat as being too dangerous for everyone!
I’m of the belief that if you are going forward and having fun, you are doing it right! everything else is just gravy.
You might be right about the instructor
I’m starting to worry now. I went ahead and scheduled the sit-in lesson since that’s all he does, and figured it’s a one-day thing and I can always try out a SOT elsewhere and even purchase one if I like it better. I figured at least I’ll have the basics from him. But he just sent me an email telling me to wear my bathing suit. I already told him I’m almost 50 yrs old and 60 pounds overweight. I’m thinking it’s not computing with him that I, right now, have limited capabilities. I’ve lost a lot of weight and have always been athletic, played tennis, worked out, etc. and am continuing to lose, so not worried about the future, AM worried about right now. Plus, one can be heavy and work out or play other land-based sports and not risk drowning! I just sent him an email back saying I will wear bathing shorts and a poly t. We’ll see but I’m going into this feeling a little uncomfortable now because I worry that he won’t understand that I simply cannot do some things.
First Lesson in SINK
– Last Updated: May-11-11 1:57 PM EST –
The first lesson in a SINK should be how to put the skirt on and how to take it off, then you go out and do a wet exit. Tip upside down, pull the skirt loop, and swim out of the boat. Learn to climb back into the boat while someone is holding it. Coming out the boat with the skirt on is actually very easy, and nothing to worry about, climbing back in takes some practice.
If you are not comfortable doing that, then you need to rethink the SINK thing. First lesson in a SOT should involve learning how to climb back in as in the video link I posted above. If you are not comfortable with that, should rethink the whole thing.
Kayaking is a water sport, and to do it safely you have to know how to handle capsize, quickly and effectively.
Remember My Goal Right Now
is to make a 5 to 10 minute commute to work (it’s not even 50 yds) and only when the water is calm - if there are waves or wind, I will walk. For now, due to my weight - 60 pounds overweight, that’s all I feel I can do. Then as i lose more, I’ll get more training and go further afield. I don’t want to get involved with sea skirts and I’ll only kayak when the water is flat and weather is dry. I’ve rowed and sailed for 20+ years so for sure both respect and know this river. I’ve been involved as a volunteer for both our sailing program and Boathouse, and I’m certified in boating safety by the Coast Guard - so I’m not going into this as a person who is unaware of the dangers of the water.
I would be able to get back on a SOT, I don’t think I could do it in a SINK in my wildest dreams. That said, I could swim to shore because it’s such a short distance. During low tide the water would be up to my hips for 3/4 of the trip.
I hope that the instructor will understand my own limited capabilities right now, my own acknowledgment of the limits, and the needs I have (short commute in good weather only) and will work with me. It would not be a good situation to be forced into doing something this is totally beyond my physical capability - SINK/sea skirt capsize and re-entry - because I fear that I will walk away being deemed as someone unfit to use a kayak.
A few points
– Last Updated: May-11-11 3:01 PM EST –
Re getting wet - I don't care if you are taking your first lesson in a bath tub the size of the Queen Mary. Water has a way of getting you into it or it to you in a paddle craft. So whatever type of lesson you are taking, the instructor needs to see that you can end up in the drink and not panic. I suspect that they'll be putting you in a wetsuit anyway - so you want a bathing suit underneath to act as rash guard.
You are starting yourself off on the wrong foot by pre-judging your ability to handle a SINK. As said above, the only way you can tell for sure is to try it out. Between paddle floats and perimeter lives, and the heel hook, in calm water re-entry SINK's can be no less effort than SOT's except for the pumping out part. It sounds like much of your weight is high up - that's a good thing. And I have encountered much younger and fitter people than yourself, men, who were unable to get back onto a SOT. In one of more embarrassing of these incidents, the man's wife ended up towing the SOT and her hubbie hanging off the end of the SOT for half a mile, herself paddling a Swifty. Whatever the cause, you need to at least get in (and out of) a boat and give this stuff a try. In both a SINK and a SOT, don't go on assumptions, but getting a little help with SINK's shaves real time off the effort of learning.
You general concern about getting to a final choice on a boat right now is well-founded. If you anticipate a significant change in your weight, this would be a poor time to go for the bigger expenditures. But if you just try this stuff out you can probably find a workable middle ground, and go used for the moment.
It also sounds like you fear being in the skirt. You'll probably be in a plastic boat which releases skirts more easily, and you'll find that gravity works upside down.