Speaking of rescues

Paddlers' Place
#41

Waterwander, I don’t believe the story. Nothing about it made sense. You’ll find a number of forum members who can’t roll a kayak, myself included, but you won’t find them paddling alone, through a dangerous inlet at that latitude, when there is a posted small craft advisory, on a 22 hour journey, 32 1/2 miles out to sea, to the continental shelf, where deep water meets shallow to concentrate wave action, in an area that he knows is populated by sharks, with a frozen block of fish chum in his kayak, that he eventually tied to his boat, then cuts it free after he sees a shark, not the expected White Shark, but an electric blue one that’s 6 ft long, or 7 to 8 ft, or 15, 20 or whatever, fortunately he had a .45 semi-auto pistol (worthless because bullets decelerate rapidly), just in case, although he wouldn’t use it, so it must have been for a shot through his temple rather than be chewed to death), and he did get a few hours of fitful sleep amongst whales that were so close he could couldn’t see them because the full moon was behind clouds, but knew they were close, very close, because he could hear their breath, because he had been very close at other times and a one point a whe was so close he screamed, and the whale screamed, and he shouted profanity at it, and the whale was just as scared, and they shared a red bull, that made him seasick, and he took a seasickness pill which made him sleepy. So he took another red bull which made him sick, and he couldn’t read the compass in the middle of the ocean, and all.he could see is the red devil eyes of thousands of birds, and they were dive bombing him, so he had to use his GPS which made him sick when he had to look down at it. [Is that a run on sentence]. The Adventure over, he misses the flood by at least an hour and capsized near the beach and almost gets washed back out to sea. THAT is a party. I can’t think of anything else I could ask, he was so thorough. Lost his boat and the insurance company smelled a rat. List all the evidence of his trip, because the cameras were in the front compartment ( how did he crawl across the front deck to get them out and put them back but can’t self rescue if the boat flipped when he was beam walking the kayak to stow his gear. In the rear hold, he had firewood, in case he got swallowed by the whale, but his matches got wet.

I’m good, I know all I need to know. If you do invite him to comment, please ask what kind of batteries he uses for his GPS and whether he had spares, did take water for drinking, did he wear Depends, how did he maintain his strength after 22 hours of paddling when he threw up all of his turkey jerkey and rice pudding. Actually, I do have a lot of questions. Maybe you could contact him and ask him to join a forum discussion and see if we could do a group paddle. I’m sure nobody on the forum has ever done anything like that.

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#42

So I think part of the appeal of paddling is that it can be self directed. The individual gets to decide where and when to go and who to go with or can go alone. There’s an adventure aspect and all of this sometimes collides with community standards. Within this community I think safety, skill development, and sound decision making is encouraged. Risk taking is not encouraged so much.

The trick is to know what you don’t know. To do this you have to be pretty honest with yourself and what your skills are. Each individual makes a personal assessment and lives or dies with the consequences. I think it’s great that details were shared and the person being rescued shared what happened. Unfortunately, others had to be relied on for his trip to have a happy ending.

Going alone, not having a roll and wearing a drysuit that leaks are pretty significant short comings for the environment he was in. It’s also not clear to me that he had practiced reentry techniques for the conditions he encountered.

On the other hand, wearing a pfd, having swimming ability, and having a radio within reach and knowing how to use it, probably saved this person’s life. Those are all things I can learn from and take away from this thread.

I’m not a sea kayaker. When I do venture into a big open water environment I want to be able to do it with confidence and not have to rely on others to be rescued. That’s my goal.

I think this individual exceeded his skill set. Thus the rescue. Conditions didn’t sound freakish or extreme to me for where he chose to go.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to sea kayak and encounter wildlife but there’s a reason why I stay in the kiddie pool (close to shore in sheltered conditions where self rescue is easier). I simply don’t have the skills for the deep end yet . I think that’s called “judgement”. Sometimes I make mistakes in judgement. The trick is trying to learn from our mistakes. To do that, you have to put your ego aside and say “I screwed up”. In other words, you have to own it and ask “what can I learn from this experience?” So this isn’t the kind of “judgement” where people are cast out and ridiculed, but rather a call for self reflection and learning…this is tough love. Someone might not be there to rescue you next time. “Best practices” is to have the capability to rescue yourself or boat with others who can effectively assist you. Always good to clean up your own mess. Not so great when others have to help.

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#43

I agree with most of what you said, but the .45 actually is a decent choice for defense against something in the water. The .45 ACP is a low velocity round, so it is less susceptible to the shearing forces of water as a higher velocity cartridge. The slower the bullet, the farther it will go in water. Your standard .45 ACP ball ammunition will deliver adequate terminal performance to several feet depth. That seemed to be the only well thought out decision he made, although attaching the gun to his boat instead of himself was another poor decision.

#44

If it weren’t for the extensive blog I would also doubt the whole thing. With that it could easily be a real person with either extraordinarily poor judgement or a equally good imagination. People can be surprising.

Some years ago our local inland group had a new paddler appear ready to do rescues by jumping into the water himself and deploying a home-made, ungainly structure. On a navigable river that could run heavy in the spring with occasional dams. He was an engineer by trade and it was more fun to create something himself than seek normal advice. He was eventually convinced that the better solution was to reduce, not simply replace, swimmers. But it was an uphill sell.

Regardless, the chart you posted and the discussions about the use of May Day are I think helpful on stuff to be careful of when someone is out in the big stuff. Unfortunately it is accompanied by additional posts which I also feel might be a bit unanchored. But that happens.

#45

You guys make good points. I accept that he went out past the inlet, based on pictures. A .45 ACP (depending on the combination of bullet/propellant travels plus/minus 830 fps. It takes 300 fps to penetrate flesh) is not effective past a few feet of water). If he did shoot a shark, would a wounded shark attract other sharks. How do you hang a chum bag from a boat so it doesn’t capsize if grabbed by a shark. Shooting into water is like a prism. How do you aim at night. As noted, why until the pistol on his person rather than the boat.

This guy didn’t do anything wrong, he did EVERYTING wrong. A novice CANNOT do what he did. How did he get to the cameras in the forward hatch. How was he taking pictures, when he had nothing but open ocean, the inlet and a selfish. Someone taking chances doesn’t bother me. Normally, a person accumulates skill from mistakes and close encounters. He learned nothing, and a person who knows nothing cannot live through repeated mistakes like that and survive. If not this trip, then another. His exceptionally poor judgement will kill him. Not if, when. He flaunted every safety precautions possible. Wonder if he at least had a whistle.

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#46

Waterwander, I’m not sure about your level of expertice. Some of the members you challenged have an incredible level of experience and skill. That adventure was a bundle of contradictions, and a cross between Alice in Wonderland, Pinocchio, and Gullivers Travels. That kayaker is living on borrowed time. It’s very hard to read a story where the author has a death wish. It’s just a matter of time. He should never paddle alone.

#47

Well, on whistles… I have one on my PFD but it is of limited value on the ocean compared to inland. A mirror or flare or even wiggling paddles with SOLAS tape on the blades for a visual signal, or a fog horn if it is not inside the now upside down day hatch. Required equipment to have in Maine and can be pretty loud.

I can accept that a lot happened to aggravate his issues with the capsize itself. It is the decisions that got him to the capsize and his decisions afterwards that merit review.

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#48

Tests have shown 9mm can produce lethal penetration in ballistic gel through as much as 7 feet of water. 45 ACP is slower, thus less drag slowing it down, and should have similar results. However, shooting a shark biting at a kayak, a person would only be shooting through a foot or two of water, and at that distance any deflection caused by the water would be negligible. Though, the blogger this thread is about would likely end up shooting a hole in his boat and further compounding his misfortune.

A wounded shark would absolutely attract other sharks. But, the wounded shark would be the target of the others, allowing for a kayaker to get away from the situation.

Aiming at night, have Tritium night sights installed. They aren’t overly expensive, usually around $100 for a set. Not sure about new compasses, but old ones made for use at night used Tritium for illumination of the needle and points on the compass.

As for why keep the pistol on person rather than on the boat, if capsized and separated from the boat, he would be separated from his gun. If it’s on him, he would have it. This is the rule of thumb for carrying in a holster and not in a bag or purse. For in a kayak, a chest holster would be the best option.

#49

"Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.’ - Otto von Bismarck.

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#50

Somehow I cannot see myself bobbing about in the open ocean at night, near a floating chum bucket, wildly firing a .45 semi-automatic pistol at surrounding sharks.

Maybe it’s just me.

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#51

Not at all close to what was discussed above… If you read it again, you will see discussing aimed, controlled, intentional firing of a pistol at a single attacking shark while seated inside of a kayak, discussion of the benefits of keeping a firearm on your person vs. off, and discussion of terminal ballistics through a medium. You also won’t see any advocating of anything the blogger did in his journey, aside from his choice of firearm caliber.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to drag chum behind a kayak, nor do I suggest trying to shoot a shark from a kayak, or going into rough waters without basic self rescue skills and adequate protection from the elements. My comments above are strictly related to ballistic performance, based on 20 years of experience and study on the subject of shooting sports, ballistics, and personal protection firearms.

#52

The whistle was just silliness on my part. Remember, at least one member wasn’t sure at times when I’m serious or joking. I resemble that.

Learning a skill is about understanding and correcting mistakes. Nobody has that kind of luck, and rstevens52 basically sums up reality.

NHTrucker, the energy potential that you mention is contrary to my experience. Its my impression that a 9mm slows within 3-5 ft, but your posts always seem based on solid information, so I won’t disagree. I also agree with your other points. The reality is he didn’t have it on his person. Refraction makes it hard to hit objects underwater. A pistol is a poor choice, regardless. Especially against an electric blue shark between 6 and 20 feet or more, whatever . . .

I’ve never worn an immersion suit of any kind. How hot is such a suit during August in the area around Seattle, and how much water would he have to drink to stay hydrated while throwing up? Isn’t rolling a way to reduce overheating while wearing an immersion suit? What’s it like to wear an immersion suit for 22 hours and how do you pass body waste?

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#53

jyak - Some questions re basic functions which I am happy to leave unpursued. One partial solution is to let yourself get dehydrated, which impacts judgement and may have been a reason he went for destinitis rather than try to wait it out. The rest is in the details of what he was wearing.

Actually you can drop down and do a static brace or a side scull if conditions are compatible, to cool off. But my guess is that this guy was likely dumping water on himself. In a true dry suit you would also have the issue of burping out accumulated air while in the boat, but that would not be an issue with the leaky situation he described.

#54

The best choice here is the same as it is on land, avoiding the situation all together.

If he wants to chum birds 30+ miles out to sea, he would have been better off to make friends with the “yachties” in the cabin cruiser, give them beer, and have them take him out to do some bird watching. That would solve the issues with the drysuit, hydration, exhaustion, bathroom, shark, capsizing, and overall dumbassery of his misadventure.

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#55

You’ve just discovered why this message board doesn’t grow. Any newcomer is ridiculed when they are just simply seeking advice. They all know better than you, or at least think they do. Sure, they are experienced but in essence, this is a board of elitist’s that are quick to judge.

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#56

Oh!! I haven’t had to manage longer than 8 hrs and 20 min with one 10 min break. The longest without a break was 7 hrs 30 mins. I have no desire to go beyond that.

#57

WithoutAPaddle, I wrote a fairly direct Rey to WaterWander. You can review my post and level the criticism on me first. Maybe I said so.eyhing that wasn’t warranted. I have no problem retracting if I was misunderstood.

To put the topic in perspective, someone started this thread with a recording of a rescue. Then an observant member found a blog or something of the event through the “victim’s” own words.

I was personally impressed with the comments from other members. I actually reserved my comments, because frankly, I don’t know if the story was a fantasy, a drug induced adventure, an attempt at fiction, or a lie. If that story is true, somebody needs to wake him up before he kills somebody. That isn’t funny, or something for a kayaker to sugar coat. Every step that guy took was a deadly mistake. I can’t add anything more than my original reply. You know when kayakers go out on open water, stories like that follow us. It infuriates me and sickens me to read about such stupidity and be viewed in the same class.

I’m all for being understanding to new members, and I believe I was the only person offended by the tone the member member levied against old members. I own that.

#58

WithoutAPaddle, I reviewed the newcomers post. That wasn’t simple seeking advice. By the way, the victim went public and fully explained his rescue. You made a good point. We should have simply ignored the story - it was a no-brainer and spoke for itself. I regret expressing any opinion on it at all.

#59

No one came here seeking advice that I can find.

A thread was started by a member who said right up front that they felt it was a learning opportunity. Further exploration of the rescue came from the words of the person involved, who as far as I can tell here has also not sought advice.

Someone did come in here and commented on the tone of things - who was themselves quick to criticize but just different criticisms. And has neither sought advice nor talked about their own experience level.

The date of the event transcript was August 22 2021, towards the end of the last easy paddling season in that region and close enough to now that the skills present then have not had a lot of time to be improved outside of pool sessions.

To repeat - no one has asked for advice. It has been looked at by some as a case study, albeit one of what not to do in many ways. But newer paddlers here who want to try sea kayaking would be well advised to get past concerns about the tone to the quite substantive parts of these comments. This is the kind of discussion which could also save someone’s life.

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#60

Agree