I was wondering if there are people out there that paddled both: Ted Van Dusen’s Mohican vs. the Epic V10 Surfski. In particular, I care very little about the ocean performance but I am very interested how the K-1 style features of the Mohican could promote better technique and result in higher flat water cruising speeds?
How much faster could I be in the Mohican?
I don’t think stability is an issue for me since I paddle my V10 with an 2" pad.
PLEASE HELP!!!
i only know one
paddler who has paddled both extensively, erik borgnes. he could tell you all you want to know. my overall sense is that there is nearly no real speed advantage to any of the boats in the unlimited class, thinking of the v10, mako 6, s1x, mohican, tbolt etc. at that point it’s the driver.
honestly, i don’t get the mohican. i’ve seen them in races with rough water, and they kind of sucked. the skis killed them. on flat water, why not paddle a new model icf boat?
if you want to reach erik, try posting on the yahoo mipp or surfski posts. he will respond and is typically extemely helpful.
andrew
v10 versus mohican speed
– Last Updated: Oct-18-07 8:00 PM EST –
I think both are very close - based on hull design, but much different as far as ergonomics. The Mohican seems pretty much like a flatwater optimized hull. The V10 is very fast on flatwater, but clearly is designed to handle the rough. My definition of flatwater is less than 1-2 waves.
If it had a rudder more appropriate for flatwater, and weed free, I'd consider the V10 essentially equal to the Mohican in flatter conditions. The V10 has a much tighter fit at the hips, making a good stroke more difficult. I am 6'3" and 245 lbs.
What is brilliant about both boats is how they are quite stable, but are just so fast. Both are narrow at the catch, and do what they are designed to do. If I just did flatwater, the Mohican would probably get the nod. For all round paddling, the V10 is probably better. Its stability in rougher water is just startling, especially compared to a Mako or Speedster.
Hope this helps.
Greg
What I was hoping to achieve,
is making significant progress with my technique by having all those K-1 style features that promote better leg work and hip rotation. I never tried a rotating seat, but the mohican would allow me to fully explore that option without being bound to it in case it is not helping me (because it is removable).
I understand, that the option for better technique does not mean I don’t have to train executing it. However, ultimately, I was hoping the mohican would help me to reach a new level of my “best” showing in faster cruising speeds.
The reason to prefer the mohican vs. a real K-1 would be the option to re-enter the boat in the middle of my lake in case I flip the boat during my training. I don’t like paddling along the shoreline … it is also infested with aligators … some of them 15 ft long.
yikes
not for me, alligators.
don’t get me wrong- i’ve heard good things about the mohican. it just came with all this hype, and it’s basically another excellent fast hull, except that it’s not as good in rough water as a real ski. re-entering is also reportedly a bit of a challenge, not as hard as a k1, but harder than a ski.
i think you sort of have to train in what you will race- there’s not much point in using a swivel seat if you are going to race in a boat without one. better off learning to optimize your form in the ski.
the thing with an icf boat is that you can get a used one for super cheap sometimes. i got one for about $400.
af
Swivel seat,
The stability of the Mohican changes quite a bit when you add the swivel seat to the ski configured boat(center of gravity change plus movement). Turns into a completely different boat. You might lose any potential speed gain with the added rotation of the swivel seat against the lesser stability.
It is a very good flatwater to slightly textured water boat that can stay with most ICF’s yet allow you to wander out into waters not ICF friendly. Build quality second to none with adjustability from overstern to understern.
HEX
mohican
Build quality is huge for mohican over v10 (leaks and rudder issues). Mohican seems to have seat position for flatwater racing. Skiis will sometimes have nose rise at speed to really slow you down. Mohican has Tiller steering and is the way to go for speed because you have solid footboard like k1.
Hey, I think I know you 
Aren’t you Jack?
Regards,
Javier
Hey Iceman,
you got me!
Jack
two reasons
Two reasons for Mohican over ICF on the flats.
Either heavy paddler or tippy paddler.
Heavy paddlers benefit from the longer waterline. I know some strong guys in excess of 95kg and the wave making drag kills them in k1s. They just sink them too deep. The only way to make a 17’2" boat float a heavy paddler is to increase the cross-section which widens the waterline beam which adds drag. Look at a Nelo XXL VS the ML. Get more volume than the XXL and the boat starts to look like a trainer or touring boat.
On the tippyness side, I have honestly seen some guys that could marginally go well in ICF boats speed up by 5’+ per 20km straight off on jumping into the Mohican.
On the speed side. The 21’ boats are all pretty close with the weight of the hull feeling to me like it makes the biggest difference.
I will second others that the Mohican is not on par with skis on rough water. Also, the swivel seat will feel way different and tippier than the bucket. Although, once you are used to one, it is hard to beat a nice padded swivel seat for long distance flatwater paddling.
All that said. I prefer ICF boats hands down on flatwater. Light, quick, and one rule where a $1000 ex-rental is on par with a fresh $4000 Vanquish.
Hello Hex,
I noticed you paddle the mohican and K-1’s. So when you say, on flatwater the mohican can hold up to ICF K-1’s, I take your word.
You mentioned, the swivel seat turns the mohican into a different boat. How would you compare the stability of the mohican with the rotating seat vs. your K-1’s … all on flat water.
Jack
Compare,
– Last Updated: Oct-20-07 11:47 PM EST –
Without the swivel seat the Mohicans stability is similar to a k-1 trainer,, 5 on that 1 to 10 scale many use. With the swivel seat it's probably a 2 maybe a 3,, very susceptible to any beam chop though. For example,, it feels a bit tippier than a Lancer CX(new rules) I have and similar if not a tad tippier than a Kirton Typhoon "iceman" has.
It's not only the higher center of gravity,, keep in mind you are on a seat that is facing every which way at any time and takes some getting used to the wobbliness. Keep in mind this is from a 51 year old paddler who doesn't have the balance the younger paddlers have nor the years in saddle of many others (probably one of the marginal K-1 paddlers Scombrid mentions),, but I am faster with the Mohican than with the 2 ICF K-1's I mentioned above. BTW,, I'm about 5-10,, 172lbs,, most of the weight up top (another way of saying chicken legs)
Hope this helps,
HEX
actually
I’ve been to so few races this year I didn’t know you had a Mohican or a Lancer CX. The last boat I saw you using was the Manta.
How is Ice liking the Typhoon? Janet had one on display at the Holyoke race. It looked like Kirton could stand to come up with a lower volume version but otherwise it looked really sweet with a nice compromise between minimizing drag and keeping some stability. He needs to bring that thing down for the Silver River race.
Scombrid,
– Last Updated: Oct-21-07 8:27 PM EST –
Still have the Manta(probably 9 yrs. old now)),, girlfriend has paddled it a bit, good transition boat from her K-1 trainer (Jet).
Ice seems to like the Typhoon,, I think he might be close to 190lbs which is a better weight for the boat than my 170. He probably will have it at Silver and definitely at Weeki Wachee,, he'll probably chime in with some input. Both of the boats are faster for me than the Manta.
Have had the Mohican for about 3 to 4 months(really enjoy this boat) and the Lancer CX about the same,,typical South African,, overstern with gas pedals, has more rocker than I would of thought, excellent turner,, probably good at Weeki Wachee.
HEX
Typhoon
To me, it is well balanced to provide both speed and stability. On flat/glassy water, it feel “rock solid” and very responsive while sprinting up to 200mts; it weights only 19lbs. Nonetheless, for experience K1 paddlers, I believe that the best qualities of the boats are shown while paddling in rougher water (for a k1 point of view).
Lately, I have paddled it more often in some quasi-open water at Lake Lanier: 1/2 foot constant chop, sustained winds of about 10mph+, and once in a while 1 to 2 feet boat wakes. The Typhoon paddles quite nicely for someone new at paddling K1’s.
Quality wise, it is quite impressive competing head to head with Nelo standards.
As Hex mentioned, I am targeting to paddle both races -looking forward to be motivated enough to paddle during ATL winter!