question
if one reduces gel coat the underlying structure is more visible. Is this something like the old Lightning paddles where one could see the “sloppy” fabric through the tinted resin? Structurally the paddles were strong with cosmetics taking a lower priority. Same can happen on kayaks where the builder prefers to have cloth/resin factor greater than gelcoat resulting in more visible cloth when most production boats ladle on the gel coat.
Bad boats
The couple I’ve seen, including one paddled by Dubside, both had structural cracks to the peaked deck in front of the cockpit and the bow. Structural meaning stress cracks to the fiberglass. The layup is unique, the cloth looks similar to the water heater in my basement. What was shocking is that by squeezing the hull in my hand, I could get it to deflect over two inches. My opinion of the boat was that the boat was designed to be a greenland rolling boat, but not paddled in conditions. Perhaps the boats being used in rock garden conditions are reinforced extensively, but the one’s I’ve seen have damage from normal paddling and roof rack transport.
i can
understand that. If i were to order one id, have to talk to them and get a heavy layup. I dont mind heavy boats. Id also choose the kind of fiber according to intended use. I typical thing that happend with flyrods,is breakage due to overlining the rod. Especcially the high end stuff. Many people like ultralight rods. How you do it is by using the highest possible modulus fibers, increase the tube diameter.
Unfortunately these superfibers are also more brittle that a carbon fiber with lower modulus. Its easy to break such a rod if you put on a line heavier than the intended use. If i were to use a kayak in surf and rockhopping id try to get a heavy glassfiber kayak.
The pintails hull seems very solid. However parts of the deck are light layup…
ill have to talk to the folks at sterling. I really like the design.
Sven…
– Last Updated: Nov-27-10 10:55 AM EST –
Sven,
It sounds like you've already made up your mind.... Go get the boat. Hope you enjoy yours.
But, you've never seen the boat, and you came here asking for feedback from those that have.
Several of us have provided you feedback indicating that quality is so/so, and that the boat is no Holy Grail. I'd prefer a Romany for the same conditions. I've paddled both.
But you (never having seen the Illusion), immediately tell us that we're "wrong", because you like their website's "homepages", you like the looks, and you've seen videos that say the "boat is really good". It sounds like you REALLY WANT TO LIKE IT, and close your ears to anyone who doesn't have favorable things to say.
Why did you even ask for opinions, when you're uninformed mind is already made up.
Enjoy your boat. Sounds like you're going to get one based on promotional videos, and "a lot of rocker".
Oh, and the Hurricane Riders use lots of different boats.... rarely have I seen them use the Illusion. I think they had to return them, as they were demos.
Yup, the “local crew” in the ad…
Yes, the local crew in the Sterling’s add are paddling Sterling’s kayaks…
It would have been funny if the Sterling’s promo featured P&H…
Of course they’re padding Sterling’s kayaks! It’s a Sterling’s promo video!! 
I’m hoping you realized that…
Two suggestions…
1) THR people sometimes hang out over on westcoastpaddler.com, so you might want to pop over there and ask them directly about Sterling’s boats.
2) Nimbus is also making these boats now. I was at the factory today and Steve was working on an Illusion. I also saw a completed Ice Kap the last time I was there. The only design difference that I could see between the Nimbus and Sterling versions is that the Nimbus boats will have a neo+FG lid hatch covers.
thanks
that was interesting information…great.
I Do Realize …
– Last Updated: Nov-27-10 7:57 PM EST –
... that the video is a promo for Sterling, but that does not negate the fact that even when he is not in town filming many of the locals choose to paddle his boats. I seriously doubt the six people I saw were sponsored boaters. They looked like regular old sea yaker’s, that is to say white 50 year olds driving Subarus and Hondas.
I honestly do not have a dog in this fight and was just making an anecdotal observation that here in Humboldt Sterling boats appear to be popular/common.
Deja vu
Reminds me of an earlier post you made asking about Tempest vs. Pintail???
Maybe you should ask bowler1… 
could be
– Last Updated: Nov-27-10 8:34 PM EST –
i connect really well with the tempests. Perhaps i got a bit frustrated by some of the critisism. And i guess i can be overexited at times..i saw that after some of my first writings. Hope i didnt hurt anyone..
my understanding of kayaking is evolving and i find my direction. What i think is so interesting with mr williamson is how he has integrated the rolls, and the focus on the sculling brace. The article , "rolling my kayak" was very important for me..
My old qaannaq512, was a VERY light , fiberglass kayak. I had to be careful with rocks and such.
it would be quite easy to destroy it, but it wasnt a bad kayak. I know light stuff has to be handled a bit careful.
wwlakeandsea
– Last Updated: Nov-27-10 9:51 PM EST –
i did not say you were wrong. But i get sceptical.
I just dont take ANYTHING for granted. Especcially not in a forum where i dont know people. And all of a sudding im an uninformed person that refuses to listen?
And stricktly speaking i didnt ask for opinions. I was merely bringing up the subject.
here is some more stuff from mr williamson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT1Cl_oi0ow
and the article.
http://www.useakayak.com/rolling_bracing/roll_my_kayak.html
I see kayaking as an art, not competiton. And i believe all aspects of this sport is to be respected. I dont have the need to put one thing above other.
Did anyone criticize the Tempest?
Skimmed through but didn’t see that. Can’t imagine too many folks knocking the T’s. Kinda like the Explorer or Aquanaut: great confidence inspiring boats a beginner can get in to, and capable of handling any conditions when the person in the cockpit has the skills to be out there.
its
– Last Updated: Nov-28-10 8:22 AM EST –
this or that, hehe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ycfv_EbGEY
or this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibPLFkEpMrM&playnext=1&list=PL10DB6EFE92782BB6&index=64
its a matter of style and taste i guess..cool clips
My 2cents
I don’t have an axe to grind here one way or another, but here is my perspective.
A buddy of mine recently purchased an Illusion solely because the low back deck allows him to do lay-back rolls. He has other boats for other purposes. While he was waiting for delivery, he brought a demo version for me to see, and the workmanship was absolutely atrocious. The model that was delivered to him was not nearly as bad.
I’ve paddled it a couple of times, and it paddles very nicely. It stays on edge, right where you put it, effortlessly. It’s very maneuverable, and a well executed sweep stroke can turn it close to 180*. It rolls like a dream. It seems to track well enough for a boat with so much rocker, even without the skeg deployed. It has one problem for a boat that was purchased with rolling in mind - the hatches leak fairly significantly.
In my mind, it’s very expensive compared to some better built boats out there, but if that’s what Sterling needs to put the things out, and buyers don’t mind paying it, so be it.
thanks…
– Last Updated: Nov-28-10 3:24 PM EST –
for useful info..
someone here said they were becomming very popular on the west coast. Perhaps this can explain some of this..maybe they are beyond their capacity and makes up demokayaks extra fast ..?
something in that direction. My intended use would be rolling and playing in waves. not things that involves chrashlandings, dumping surf or rockhopping..Anyway, i have some great kayaks,so im in no hurry. ive just had the pintail in rough conditions once, and i havent got a chance to paddle the zephyr in beachplay. ive got a feeling that its real nice for that. Ive paddled the yellow 155rm zephyr a lot though, getting used to the kayak. And ive used it quite a bit for rolling practice. It seems to be exeptionally well suited to stuff like RODEOBACKDECK roll reverse sweeps , stuff where one changes side under the rear deck..
but as most of you propably know. This kayaking thing can easily turn into compusive behavior.
Performance wise it think the illution or perhaps icecap woud suit me perfectly. A good thing with fiberglass is that its easy to fix...and i guess one has to make some compromises once in a while..
The Zephyr …
– Last Updated: Nov-28-10 3:43 PM EST –
... is a real nice play boat if you fit in it well. Seems to be a larger person's boat, even the smaller 15.5 model: wide and tall cockpit (still with one of the lowest rear decks available, though).
But, it rolls very easy. I have not been close to a hand roll before, but last week I tried it and one or two worked. Yesterday I was at a pool practice and was able to do half a dozen hand rolls in a row, several times. Works almost effortlessly, as long as I get the motion right. Still failing me from time to time but this is clearly a boat that helps me develop better/new rolls.
Also at that swim practice, I had a chance to "sample" some other kayaks (a Nigel Foster Silhouette, an Epic 18x Sport, CD Suka, NDK Romany). The Romany paddled/rolled very similar to the Zephyr as far as I could tell, but the Z fits me better and does not pinch my butt with the seat back (ouch!) like the Romany. None of the other kayaks obviously was built with rolling and playing in mind so the Romany and the Z were in a league of their own about rolling and maneuverability. Unfortunately, the Romany's deck does not accomodate my long legs well - it really needs knee bumps for someone my height as my knees are pushing against the deck and the thigh braces did nothing - perhaps the Surf would be better. But that auful backband - can't fathom how anyone would let something like that go into production: gets under you when you enter the kayak and pinches you painfully against the sharp seat bottom rear with laybacks...
Why write about the Z? Since you have it, you may want to put some miles under it. You may like or not like it (if the fit is not good for you). I would guess the Illusion would be similarly easy to roll as your Z. But I think it will paddle a bit differently due to the pinched ends. Never been in one so not sure what the difference would be, but just theorizing, it seems it will be more prone to burry its nose in steep wind waves (to pearl surfing) than the full-ended Z. These things look short like white water boats with pinched ends added for a good measure -;)
nice.
– Last Updated: Nov-28-10 4:17 PM EST –
well i have paddled it quite a bit, just not in the surfzone where i think i would exel. But ive had it in fairly high winds, and it wasnt difficult to control.
I think the zephyr is a VERY nicely desinged kayak.I really like it. And i personally think the zehyrs and tempests in plastic are the finest made plastic kayaks ive seen. I know lots of people feel the 3layer stuff is better..I would compare the zephyr with the avocet.
A kayak i also really liked. i paddled the plastic avocet 30gusting 35knots wind and steep chop, with ocational boats criscrossing a bit too close really.some seeking shelter in the harbour i used as a base,others ferrys and taxy boats giving a little extra trottle when seeing me out there, hehe. It was great in this stuff.
the zephyrs wide lege position is very comfortable for me. I believe this wideness gives extra touque when rolling edging etc..its also got that little flat area on the side of the cockpit, that can can be used to spin the kayak. so the bottom line is that we are extremely lucky in that we can pick and choose from all this great kayaks with their respective imperfections and caracter.
Tempest
The Tempest is ok, kinda a do everything boat. Just it does nothing really well, not alot of character.
Bill H.
My Illusion
I bought a used Illusion in the summer of 2009. Since then, I’ve used it pretty hard, mainly in the ocean and the tideraces of the Pacific NW.
If you like to push your boat to the limit, you won’t do better than an Illusion. It responds to every shift of your weight, every movement of your body. It fits like a glove, rolls like a dream. I’ve pitch poled it forwards and backwards, in waves way overhead. I’ve hit rocks in every direction. This is a strong, tough boat, even though it is quite light. I have had to do some repairs, but that’s no surprise given how I use my boats.
Sterling has improved the design since mine was built in 2008. He makes them all right in his shop in Bellingham, I enjoyed my visit there.
This boat is not for everyone, there is a lot of personal preference in what performance boat you like. If you are looking for barge-like stability, you won’t like it. This is a sports car, not a SUV.
thanks
it seems like its a boat that would suit me.