Stiring the QCC Pot

Let me stir the pot a bit. I have read alot of good press concerning QCC Kayaks and the QCC 700 in general. Let me mention I do own one and realize yes it is said to be a fast touring design and if not mistaken considered a sea kayak. My gripe with the boat is for two reason.

One being my inability to get comfortable in the boat for anymore thand about 20-30 minutes before my legs go numb from waste to toes and extreme aching of the hamstrings. My second gripe is that I find the boat worthless in the atlantic ocean off Fort Lauderdale, even on the glassiest days the boat still tends to want to capsize as the normal up/down/swelling motion of the ocean passes under the hull. I have found this boat great heading into a 6 inch chop but thats where I find this boats limitations to be.

So any body out there want to challenge my beliefs. Returning back to the ever friendly and fearless CD Storm.


sell it
That’s the only solution. The faster it’s out of your hands the better. If it’s brand new then 20%off a new price should move it.


– Last Updated: Jul-02-04 2:13 PM EST –

something 29 to 30 inches wide will make you feel more secure in a 6 inch chop.

HEX (stirring the pot some more)

I like the way you talk
Im with you there, my only love for it is the way it stows for camping trips. Fortunetly bought it used at half price and can afford to part with it. Whats your offer ?


Stiring the QCC Port
yeah your right, better get a sheet of plywood and add a rudder. Certainly something I could consider seaworthy.


The 700 is not a boat for the average

– Last Updated: Jul-03-04 12:28 AM EST –

beginner. I do find the qcc boats have more boat slap than many other designs.

OTOH lots of paddlers love them and there is no denying that they are very efficient, especially in flattish to moderate conditions. They have very good strength to weight rations, and look good to me.

You might want to look to your skills instead of the boat. Dynamic balancing, (suspended from a point above your head, shoulders level, hips loose) and bracing skills seem to be in order.

OTOH switching from the caribou (a nice boat for many folks) to a romany explorer made me feel much better in rough water in less than a month. some boats are better for some people (and waters) than other boats.

One of the many good things about most sea kayak dealers is that they offer instruction. Most accomplished sea kayakers (or would-be sea kayakers) take a bit of instruction sooner or later. Some paddlers (and some QCC buyers because they mostly buy outside the dealer channel) think that technique and instruction are superfluous. Ok for them but not where I paddle about 30% of my ocean time. Perhaps some work on balancing technique would be helpful for you.

(please understand by accomplished sea kayaker I mean a person who can reliably land in 4 foot surf (if it's not dumping right on the beach) and paddle in just about any non-breaking swell conditions, do tows and rescues when it gets nasty, make progress up a 20 mph wind for a good long while, and handle a three knot current. To me these are minimal skills for the adept, but even novices deserve respect. I am right emergent as a sea kayaker) Your ambitions and standards may vary.

Boat wants to capsize?
Put it out in a 6" chop without anyone in it and it’ll stay upright just fine…

The 700 may well be the wrong boat for you, but that doesn’t make it a bad boat. I’d probably fall off a surfski in those conditions but I wouldn’t blame the ski – pros race them in much worse conditions.

I’ve disliked boats that other folks have loved, and vice versa. That’s normal. If it doesn’t match your skills and goals, get rid of it and find a boat that does.

Either trolling or you have a problem !
Maybe your size has something to do with your comfort, but c’mon you are as full full of sh… as a Christmas turkey, when you say the yak wants to capsize.

Kayaks don’t capsize. Kayakers capsize them.

I picked mine up two days before the Bacall race down in Key Largo, and the second time that I was in any 700, was during that race.

Go research how bad the seas were that day. They were horrndous and I had a ball learning what the kayak would do.

Our coastal beaches here in NC are no different than your Fort Lauderdale waters, and last month I spent a week playing in the surf. Sure I capsized , but I kept the open side up much more than down, and that was in four foot breakers

Is this your first kayak?

If yes than store it away, and get a 62" wide by 62" long rec yak.

Then in three or four years break it out of storage and you will appreciate what a fine yak it is.



Jack I do think he is an newbie or troll

– Last Updated: Jul-03-04 12:26 AM EST –

but put him onto a gulfstream or carolina not a barge! (besides I want to buy the 700) ;-)

stir that boiling pot!
Greetings hartmanbri

I too have heard only great things about the 700. I just sold a Looksha 3, less tippy than a surf ski, more tippy than most other kayaks. You get used to the boat and eventually the boat will feel stable and you’ll still be going faster than everybody else(a good thing). I have ordered a carbon/kevlar 700(should be here soon, can’t wait) and I own an epic 18. The 700 is probably a great boat. If you can hang in there, take a couple of lessons or find a good paddling buddy, you will no doubt get used to the boat and will still get to where you want to go first and more importantly, with less fatigue. Only you know what you can put up with and where your comfort level is. But, you own the 700 and once you’ve paddled a fast boat there is nothing worse than paddling a boat that accelerates and moves slowly! That is a bummer! So, hang in there and practice your bracing! You can do it! Eventually, I bet you won’t think the boat is tippy at all… matter of fact, you’ll think it’s down right stable, almost boring.


QCC vs. Brit Boat
(The match of the century?) I own both; a carbon/kevlar 700 w. rudder, and an NDK Explorer. My view is this…if the seas are big, and you don’t want to worry about a capsize or for that matter, worry at all, go with the Explorer, hands down. It scoffs at nasty conditions. That’s its element. If you want to go fast, QCC, hands down. I’ve had the 700 out a number of times in confused seas, and I have to say it wasn’t particularly confidence inspiring. It did the job fine, but there was a fair amount of bow slap and weathercocking going on. The rudder worked fine in following seas, and it picks up nice rides fairly easily, except when it came out of the water oat the crest of some swells. I really don’t have all that much experience with heavy conditions, but at the skill level I’m now at, the Explorer is by far the more benign handling boat, at least for me. I find though, that given a choice of what to paddle, I take the QCC every time, but it did take me some time to get used to it-in fact, I believe I may have cursed certain elements of it. (Rudder housing, etc.) As far as numbness, I too experience this in my left leg-pushing the pegs out a notch farther than usual may alleviate this, as might a thigh support on the floor pan. Unfortunately for me, the detents on the footpegs are widely spaced-my optimum of course falls between two settings. Fast boat, though, very fast. I’m keeping mine. Did a short comparo between the QCC and a friend’s Epic 18. The Epic may surf a bit better, and possibly be a tiny hair faster, but the QCC in the carbon accelerates faster and has more initial stability. Fit and finish, no contest-the QCC is darn near flawless. I would be the wrong person to ask about the quality of my NDK for one reason alone. Other than that, the boat’s dry as a bone, built like a battleship, and almost as heavy as one. (Try six portages on the ROTC…)

The 700
the 700 is one of the most stable 21" beam kayaks you can find. I think you are just trying to stir things up or you are not ready for a 21" beam. If the latter is the case keep paddling in calm water till you get used to the 700. Or take a lesson because speed and stabilty is the 700’s strong points.

Commentary on your beliefs…
You mentioned two problems:

  1. Your inability to get comfortable in your 700…Sounds like a personal problem, not a problem with the kayak to me! I too had problems getting comfortable sitting inside a kayak when I first started paddling, regardless of who manufactured it. I padded cockpits, added minicell foam, swapped out backbands, tried out inflatable seat cushions, and experimented with different foot peg positions before beginning to get comfortable in my kayaks. Then I took it a step further. I began doing hamstring stretches several times a day. When watching tv or visiting with the family around the house, I would sit on the floor with my legs straight out instead of resting in the easy chair. Generally, I have had to increase my flexiblity in order to participate in this sport, and am all the better for it.

    2)Your 700 wants to capsize…You have my sympathy because from your post, its evident that you need to improve your paddling/bracing/boat handling skills. There’s no shame in admitting that you need more practice/skill development but to blame your problems on a kayak model that has a fairly “decent” reputation is, IMHO, more than “stirring the pot”! I am the first person to admit that I need to improve my skill level in all things paddling, but I certainly wouldn’t have the b**ls to go on a public forum and blame my lack of skills on my kayak, especially when paddling on “glassy” days.

    JackL said it best…“store it away, and get a 62” wide by 62" long rec yak. Then in three or four years break it out of storage and you will appreciate what a fine yak it is."


Challenge? On water or off???
Hi Brian,

Some good comments here already, but since I’ve seen your boat, I can add one thing the other’s don’t know:

You have the pre-SealLine rudder - and SLIDING foot braces. Sure they don’t move a lot - but they still leave you with no solid connection to the boat. In a 21" beam you find challenging - in waves - it sort of leaves you hanging.

I don’t remember, does your coaming have the thigh braces or not?

We had a calm paddle out of Oleta - but I remember you noting, as we headed back and caught a few wakes, how I appeared to be much less affected and hardly moved by them. Any difference is from the benefits of minor outfitting improvements - and 500-600 miles in the boat.

Seat time is the answer if you want to keep it, but to do that you’ll have to get comfortable and set up to work the hull in waves better.

I have very solid and comfortable contact at feet, knees, hips, and lower back. Not tight anywhere, but right where I need it. I usually spend 3-4 hours in the boat with no breaks. I have no numbness issues (used to), not stiffness/soreness, and am more flexible when I get out than when I got in (wasn’t that way at first, in the stock boat).

When I first got the Q700 - it was a huge wake up call. That’s why I got it - so I can’t say it was a surprise. I did more of an extreme jump than you. I was not used to an active and responsive hull - or a SINK at all! After a big wide SOT with TON of primary stability I had no clue how to take advantage of secondary stability in moving water.

My first Q700 ocean paddle: I made it down the New River, ICW, out the port, and up to Lighthouse Point. I was only my third time in the boat (2-4’, 10-15kts). I did dump once - after 15 miles - from being tired. The boat did an amazing job of babysitting me until then, and after. So far that’s the only unintentional capsize (I must not be pushing the learning curve hard enough!).

In a few months I learned to relax and the wiggles went away. Not tensing up, and trusting the boat were key. One day, something clicked. Chop, slop, and wakes that used to have me fearing a swim I can now take sitting with paddle in my lap. I still have MUCH to learn, but the difference in comfort is huge.

There are some good spots locally where you can go incrementally up into more wakes/chop and back to calm at your leisure (well, maybe not in Summer - it’s all pretty calm now). Simple things like finding confused areas and more wakes - and taking them as they come while holding course tune you up pretty quick. Waves outside the beach break are usually no worse than chop, but the more active the water the more it works you.

You have two options: 1. Sell it, pass the good deal along, and let someone else enjoy a great kayak (Original Q700, with centered cockpit for anyone interested). If the CD Storm’s extra 3" beam works for you - go back to it. Q700 is about as stable as you’ll find in a 21" beam. Lots of kayaks out there - no reason to stay unhappy.


2. Go back to basics and gradually work up to more challenging conditions, working on outfitting as you go.

I’ve made a series of small changes to make a good boat even better for me. With a rudder, you can’t do all, but I’d recommend at least considering these two things:

  1. Replacing your rails/pegs with the SealLine system (should be able to keep the rudder itself).

  2. Put in a good back band - LOW! IR Reggie 2.0 or NSI Whitewater or Mini Whitewater (same size as Reggie). The stock seat is comfortable, but in the wrong way - too much like a sling. Maybe OK for lightweights like JackL, but bigger guys really benefit from and upgrade here.

Ben waiting for that comparison, Thanks!
About what I expected. Not surprised it’s now your preferred paddle. Efficiency is hard to give up once you have it.

If I had more room, I’d add something like an Explorer - but it would be a waste if I left it high and dry most fo the time.

If you find the Q700 tippy

– Last Updated: Jul-03-04 6:29 AM EST –

The boat isn't the problem. You've got a balance problem. You're either really top heavy or clumsy. QCCs aren't very tippy as 21" beam boats go. To tell you the truth, after getting accustomed to surfskis and ICF K1s, the QCCs feel like barges to me. Very stable and comfortable for long touring, photography, fishing, etc.... and not particularly fast (though great speed for the stability and storage you get). I can't remember the last time I threw a brace in the Q600 other than coming in through surf broached.

You sound like you feel the same way in the Q700 as I did at first in the surf ski but then I never found the QCC particularly tippy and had it in conditions on my second paddle. It did take awhile to get comfortable enough in the Q600 to paddle knees-free in beam waves and to be able to fish. You want to go fast, you'll have to put up with a narrowish beam. If you find it tippy, practice and the balance will improve.

The only thing I've changed with mine is removing the rapid pulse seat and padding up the stock pan because I wanted to sit up a tad higher and don't like or need a back band/seat back. I've also added a footboard because I find pushing on foot pegs out on the sides of the hull to be awkward and inefficient; driving the legs down the center is better.

As for comfort, I don't know what to tell you. With kayak seats, one size/style does not fit all. Many paddlers modify their stock boats no matter what they paddle. You may be way too tense in your boat. I paddle with knees in the center, out from under the combing, and legs pumping even in beam waves, with the boat just moving around under me. I never have a problem with numbness.

That’s funny!
I have a 600 and they’re supposed to be even more tippy than the 700! Well from the getgo I was very comfortable in mine and have never found it to be even the slightest tippy! What a hoot! It’s too bad that you bought a kayak that you weren’t able to try before you bought it or did you just buy it because of the rave reviews that it mostly gets from P.netters? I never got to try one before buying either and took a gamble on my purchase but I am happy with it. I found out how fast she is last week when paddling a very flat lake! We usually have some chop to deal with around here and alot of boat wakes but she takes them!

half off sounds good
but I’m too far away to see it,post it in the class ads.

it does work…
the used boat classified ads here on P-NET are where i found a used QCC600 in almost showroom condition (thanks Larry). for the price of a plastic SINK i got a much more advanced kayak that still has me looking up at the learning curve, but smiling every moment. if you are serious about selling your QCC700 I would recommend starting right here.

The QCC pot has been stirred
I knew I could get you QCC lovers all riled up. No Im not a beginner paddler, been paddling about 6 years now, anywhere from 2-10 times a week consistently and feel Im making an accurate judgment of the boats characteristics in the ocean. Sure its great in the gulfside bays of the keys, I was just there last week and loved the way the boat handled the 6’ inch head on chop and chop and even 12’ chop and breeze at the beam.

Took the CD Storn out yesterday in the ocean and it was quite bumpy, the boat and me happy as a clam and fearless. Just have to keep the QCC for pond I guess.