95,500 miles
on my second Subaru, and I can’t remember the last time I had it serviced for an actual problem (ever?). That’s why I drive a Subaru.
I wish I could say that about the last two Chevy’s and Ford we had.
no infamous head gasket failure?
I hear this thrown around a lot but have yet to hear from someone with a late nineties or later with head gasket failure.
my ultimate kayak carrier
while we’re on the subject:
http://www.autospies.com/news/More-pics-of-the-2007-Audi-RS4-avant-wagon-5168/
cfl, you’d have to turn your head pretty fast to spot this one…
Mine was a 1980 model,…
… and back then, they said proper re-torquing of the head bolts early in the car’s life would pretty much eliminate any problems with head gaskets. I never did re-torque them as directed, but had no problems.
Repair Cost? Reliability?
I’ve been thinking about getting a used, “Turn of the century” Outback to build credit/have a decent car to drive. I’ve heard about the infamous head gasket problem and that they’re expensive to repair overall.
How long should and Outback go? There are tons of them around here with 80-100k on them. Are people unloading 'em because they fear they’ll fall apart?
Phreon
Subaru head gasket issues
The head gasket issue is real. The gaskets on my daughter’s 1997 outback blew at the top of the Rockies in CO. I tried to suggest possible reasons for the loss of power and overheating to the tow truck operator over the phone. He said you can try to delude yourself for as long as you want, but you have a blown head gasket. I’ve towed over 400 of them.
Cost of repair is $1500-$2500, depending on if the heads are milled (they should be) and if other things are replaced at the same time while the motor is out for the gasket repair.
A friend just had the head gaskets fail on his wife’s 2001 outback. Dealer didn’t mill the heads and the gaskets failed again in a month. 2nd repair has held for a few months and should be ok.
Subaru service managers say the problem was solved on 2003 models- I will wait a few more years before believing that as issue seems to hit after 60,000 - 100,000 miles.
I owned 4 Outbacks and consider them great cars except for this problem. Don’t own one presently, as Subaru doesn’t stand behind their cars for this well known defect once they are out of warrantee.
Dave
Agree
I could always get one cheap when I didn’t make any money. Then as we all grew up and starting making good money, they got really expensive. Personally, I bought a Nissan Murano, which is a lot more vehicle for the money.
i don’t know
why someone would knock someone for buying a practical car like a Subaru wagon . I personally have never owned one but,my next car will likely be a wagon of some sort that is American made .
As far a dependability,when I worked at an independent auto shop I saw lots of makes and models and what I found out is that they are all junk ,some more than others,but all of them came to the shop.
My reasons for buying from American companies—
1:as a mechanic I feel that on the average they are just as good if not better than imports
2:Jobs ARE on the line,currently I work for a company that is a major supplier of domestic steel ,the big 3 buy a large percentage of their steel from us . all the foreign companies together don’t even come close to what one of the domestic auto makers buys,they are helping to keep over 30,000 people here where we live working .
3:next time you go to the bwcaw in Minnesota take notice of how many gm,ford and Chrysler dealers there are when you get up here .If your vw ,bmw ,Subaru,Volvo or what ever breaks down your out of luck for a dealer to make the repairs for you,local parts stores in the area don’t stock a lot of import parts either so you can’t count on a independent to make a same day repair.
all that said ,you have to make yourself happy so drive what you like ,
Bob
To put it in perspective
– Last Updated: Feb-07-07 11:00 PM EST –
AFAIK, no manufacturer has completely stood behind their failing head gaskets. It is NOT considered an item falling under safety recalls.
Toyota 3.0L V6 engine trucks/SUVs and Ford 3.0L V6 engine Tauruses were famous for blowing theirs, too.
Ford refused to help owners at all (except if still under warranty), and an entire website (the Blue Oval website) was devoted to ranting about it. People were trading in those cars left and right because they didn't want to get stuck footing 100% of the repair bill.
Toyota did better. They issued a "campaign" notice, meaning they put out notice so that dealers would alert owners of said vehicles to the problem. It was a matter of WHEN the gaskets would blow, not IF--somewhere between 50K and 100K miles was typical. Unfortunately, at that point most of the trucks were out of warranty (in my case I was alerted at about 50K which would have been under warranty except that the truck was 6 years old then).
Toyota covered some costs even when the truck was out of warranty and had not blown gaskets, but it wasn't clear what the criteria were. Some people had 100% of the cost covered by Toyota; some had none; most of us (including myself) had part of it covered. There was a website wherein somebody recorded data such as year/model of truck, miles on the odo, blew or not blew, and how much of the repair cost did Toyota cover. I skimmed over hundreds of the entries before I got tired of reading them--there may have been thousands.
I'm not making excuses for automakers, just noting that Subaru is only one of several with head gasket problems (the one I've heard/read the least about, too).
Oh yeah. Remember the Isuzu Trooper?
It’s funny how some of these examples get bad press and some do not. I think the Isuzu Trooper had the worst record of all, though in all fairness, I think Isuzu got plenty of bad press and their reputation really suffered because of it. There was at least a 5-year stretch where it seemed like every Isuzu Trooper had at least one head-gasket failure. I met one couple who’s Trooper was on it’s 3rd head gasket in about as many years. I can’t remember for sure, but I think that car had an aluminum head on a cast-iron block, and the differential rates of expansion between the two metals was a recipe for distaster. Isuzu wasn’t the only company to mis-match head and block materials that way. Maybe some of Pikabike’s examples had this for a cause as well.
Subaru Rules!
http://community.webshots.com/album/557517448wIvfKo
Reason why Subaru Rules: 21 ft SRS Arrow tandem, 17 ft Elio Cobra and a Thule Cargo box in the middle.
HEY CFL
HAHA!!! Im so glad I pissed you off.
You are right though… CFL, there is ALOT of B.S. on here. Thats pretty much all the internet is anyway. If you want a meeting just shoot me an E-mail and put paddling.net in the subject line
I will get back with you and we can meet up. How does that sound. Im in north Florida. How about you?
Subaru Light Trucks
The Legacy/Outback is a very utilitarian vehicle, no doubt.
My gripe with them is the subtle change they made to the ride height so they can classify the Outback as a “light truck” instead of a passenger vehicle.
They claim it is to offer consumers the SUV characteristics they are looking for.
Conveniently, it greatly eases the side-impact safety requirements while allowing them to offer bigger engines without having to abide by passenger car fuel economy standards.
Pretty shady in my book.
Matrix/Vibe
I think I’m probably better off getting a Matrix or Vibe (the rack is a plus). Better milage than a Sub’ and made by Toyota. Don’t really need full time AWD either. Only “need” it a day or two a year; rest of the time it’s wasting gas. Actually, I’ve never had trouble with any front drive car in snow.
Sub’s are nice though.
Phreon
Mazda 6 wagon? Rack situations?
Finally another wagon to consider, nice size and sleek sportiness – Too bad Ford owns much of Mazda and puts Ford engines in some of them, as Mazdas used to be as reliable as Honda, Toyota, Nissan.
?
My 01 outback gets almost 30 mpg, has a 2.5l engine and has one of the best safety ratings in the class. The 2.5l is used across the board - legacy, impreza rs, forester.
The raised ride height was a marketing ploy only although with the lower center of gravity of a subaru they could get away with it and still afford good handling. Lots of outbacks and raised ground clearance legacys in Oz.
A colleague of mine
– Last Updated: Feb-08-07 10:09 AM EST –
had headgasket failure on a 2001. Another person told me they had it on their 1999. I had it on a 1997.
The other thing I'd say that's negative is that it is the most expensive car to repair I've ever had--probably even more expensive than my old 1980 Volvo.
I generally take it to my longtime mechanic, whose prices for labor are pretty darn cheap, but the parts I've had to replace are generally 2-3 times pricier than the equivalent parts on the Hondas and Toyotas I've owned. It also once broke down on me in a city where I knew no one, so I could get no recommendations for a mechanic, more than 1000 miles from home. Had to take it to a Subaru dealer that time, and they really screwed me. But that's par for the course for dealers of all stripes. I still like it for carrying boats. But its the most expensive damn car I've ever owned. Next time, I'll probably go with Honda or Toyota, whose reliability ratings are generally higher, and whose parts are generally cheaper.
remind me
– Last Updated: Feb-08-07 10:03 AM EST –
never to let you behind the wheel of mine ;)
Seriously, my point is that there are a whole slew of people out there who've never had this problem. What pikabike posted has some truth.
I’d still buy another . . .
if I was richer.
Vibe Rack
I see those cars on the road often. But the rack is placed so far back that it looks like carrying a long boat would require a huge overhand beyond the rear of the car, if you wanted to balance it. Doesn’t look like a practical carrier for anything but a WW or short rec boat.