You are correct, Sir – They hadn’t been there long, and as you no doubt probably already know Tom(I won’t insult your intelligence like some here regularly insult mine)this is also when flooded creeks/rivers are at their most dangerous. And although we(me personally and fellow crew partners)certainly prefer to wait a day/two until any “chocolate milk” has settled-out, scouting is done to find a sweet spot for that envelope of the safest, best betting time for a run. My own experience has been, if you know well in advance where the hazards are, big water is actually safer than lower more technical heavily rock strewn water(barring like, Cl. V over high ledge madness;-). Even if that water way is still filled with run off/sediment.
The color is only one of the off putting characteristics of those photos. Running flood water is really a bad idea.
Once again, only if approached incorrectly.
(Wasn’t reference’s to you on the intelligence scale either, String;-)
Not sure about the intelligence scale. I tend to learn the hard way. I’ve run 2 rivers at high water that were worrisome. As you know, once you’re in it there is little time for worry.
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Well thar’s the beauty–Being totally in the moment!
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SB, didn’t we paddle together in Florida years ago? Maybe Hontoon/ Dead River?
Not sure if this thread is strictly about rivers or about risk management in general.
I’m not a river paddler so strainers are not an issue but on the BC coast there are objective and subjective risks that come into play each day, same as you. Sometimes choices are no-brainers and other times I make the best choice based on risk assessment, same as you.
Yeah, I’ve made some mistakes and maybe this should be a different thread. I try to be open about my bad choices so that folks can avoid them. At the same time those choices based on skills and assumed challenges have served me well…mostly.
Adventure.
Is this a separate thread?
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Blue Springs…2007, I think???
I was dumb enough to bring an inflatable kayak back then, but I didn’t think about petting any alligators if I recall;-
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No, I don’t think it’s a separate thread- And I agree with you.
Way back at the top of this thread, the OP took heat for what I believe was unmerited. Him and his crew arrived on location to find expected circumstances had changed. They had to walk and scout a boney landscape that outlined what would’ve been potentially(and that’s the key word here, POTENTIALLY)hazardous trip had there been water. As he, you, and me, seem to well know from our own “suffering needlessly” experiences(be it creek, river, lake or ocean)–Potential hazards are part of the game. We are not pursuing it for a tame Pungo-around-the-pond experience to begin with. We accept it, not “Oh my–This could’ve been way too dangerous! I never should’ve considered it.” Reality: Being forced to get out of one’s boat to take a hike in the first place, is the real pain in the ass.
And I’ve had my share of mishaps and involuntary swims over the years, lost a Class V level expert-friend-ww kayaker-author…And I still wouldn’t change my thinking.
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You nailed it!
At least you nailed it from my POV.
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I remember that big inflatable that went nowhere fast. It was a good time. I think that’s the trip where a manatee surfaced directly under my friend’s kayak. It stopped within mm of her hull.
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A “good time” is a relative term when one is the last boat to finish a day trip long after dusk when the larger gators have come out to play, and you realize you are in a boat made from a mm of PVC(Talk about “suffering needlessly.”) Oh well, it fit on the plane nicely at the time, anyway…Had some pics from that trip with you and the group, but seem to have been lost to time on the great Internet photo bucket list of files gone obsolete. Couple days later I do recall getting “bumped” by something myself on the St. John’s River…Never did see if it was a manatee or something bigger. Glad I finally got things right by getting back in a hard boat and the ocean.
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You should feel free to start another thread. I think people’s experiences around danger/safety are among our most valuable topics.
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I was also going to comment about the color of the water being a pretty clear danger signal. I’ve also,found that any time you can hear the water going over obstacles there’s a danger factor and that standing wave in the second pic isn’t silent. I don’t paddle that kind of water because I don’t have the right equipment, I don’t have enough skill to satisfy myself, I’m almost always alone, and I’m perfectly happy with the type of paddling that I do.
I paddle the river in the pic below at least 100 times a year. The current ranges from 2-8 mph and the height can vary by more than ten feet. It kills people during high water and low water too. One time after a flood I was passed by a full size oak tree (um - yikes). I’ve had my paddle grabbed and jammed against the boat at least a dozen times this year. I hit a submerged branch yesterday and also got hung up on trees a couple times when I got stuck trying to go over…good thing a power boat didn’t go by while I was hung up. Point is things happen if you get out there often enough and one paddle could be often enough.
So yesterday I found about six cool lures. I picked up one spoon attached to a bobber and it had a couple feet of line attached to it. I threw it in the back of the canoe with the other lures. About 100 yards later my canoe gets pulled hard backwards and I look behind me and the spoon and bobber is getting yanked straight out the back of the boat. I have no idea WTF is going on and I’m wondering how a fish might have taken a spoon that’s in my canoe. I go back and retrieve the bobber and spoon and find that it’s attached to about 100 yards of fishing line that I must have missed when I first grabbed it. I cut the line with my knife since I was in current (with a dog in the boat) and there was just a little too much going on.
I hope to paddle today before it rains. The forecast is “breezy” with wind gusts of 35-40 mph, maybe 45 tops.
Stuff happens. Water is dangerous.
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I read that if you drink too much water , your kidneys can’t handle it and it goes to the lungs and can drown you . Dangerous stuff indeed. It has to be true…
“Never the same river twice.” as the saying goes…I won’t start another thread–If people don’t know there’s no substitute for good judgement first and foremost, then that’s their problem.
Apologies to tdaniels (aka, “Dirty Harry”) for hijacking this thread. And apologies to ppine–His cautions are indeed valid for the great unwashed out there…
TomL, glad you weren’t “lured in” and that you aired on the side of your “pup.”(This is now my last post on this subject matter, promise.).
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hey “it’s all good” with rivers and also with threads that meander a bit…as somebody that likes to run small volume seasonal streams I find the water quality is much better when the water levels start to drop out rather than catching them on the rise- I can handle brown water. It’s when it stinks that isn’t good. I’ve done a few runs where you keep the mouth closed (avoiding splashes in ww) and rush home take a shower immediately afterwards. Catching streams on their way down also seems a bit safer.
here’s the decision making process at work
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here’s an older video of mine using “boat control” to get around the wood (only about a 1/3 of the wood is in the video) but even that trip required a portage
That’s ugly. Been there.