I have been going back and forth for months about purchasing a kayak / canoe that I can use for single day fishing trips as well as multi-night outings. I have paddled a few different kayaks but am not sure how relevant they are since most of them offer little if any capacity to support the overnights. At this point I have done a ton of online research and while I may know a lot more about my choices I am just as confused about what to select. I am leaning toward a canoe because of capacity but also have some inflatable on my list for the same reason. My budget is $1,500 or less, I want to be able to fish and carry gear for overnights. I will be on lakes and also rivers but won’t try any water bigger than Class II. I live in the NW. Anyone willing or able to point me in a good direction?
A kayak for flat water lakes/ponds is a very different beast from one for class I or II water. This broad desire for uses will make finding a single boat that does both reasonably well hard to find.
Made harder if you are looking for kayaks that can carry gear, as kayaks for whitewater are going to be small by design, and not good at carrying gear. Flat water kayaks are longer, and can more easily carry gear.
Canoe can work in both ponds/lakes and Class I/II rivers, but keep in mind that there are skills needed to taking canoes on moving water.
Most of the folks that I camp with are in canoes. (Not a surprise since most of the folks that I paddle with are in canoes.) Packing a solo canoe is easy - two big bags, one in front one in back. Not the best picture but…
Having said that, there are plenty of people who camp from kayaks, but they tend to be sea kayaks with front and rear bulkheads. Rather than two big bags, you end up with lots of small bags. Ruth managed to get everything in her boat.
Either works - you just need to decide what you want to paddle. Most of the serious fishermen that I see are in big, wide sit-on-tops, which tend to be more stable.
I’d say decide what you want to paddle and go from there (but stay away from the inflatable).
You can take multiweek trips in either… We often travel with a solo canoe and a kayak for 10 day trips in the Everglades… We only hope we can do that this winter as there is big time damage to the NPS facilities.
And that is carrying water. We only carry water in saltwater environments.
I am not a fisherman but I do both canoe and kayak camping.
A canoe is a big hole that swallows all your gear! But they are a pain going against the current or in a wind or…
A kayak is faster and does more, but all your gear has to fit through that small hole.
it is a give and take but the ONE RULE is to paddle a craft similar to the ones your companions paddle.
If you are in a 12’ canoe, you will NEVER be able to keep up with those 16’ sea kayaks.
So if everyone is in a canoe, you do a canoe. If they are n kayaks, you do a kayak. And try to keep the length within 2’ of the group. A 14’ boat can barely keep up with a 16’ and can easily accompany a 12’ boat but that 12’ boat will never keep up with the 16’ boats.
Regardless, put everything important into a drybag. A lot of smaller drybags are ideal. They fit through a kayak hatch and you can stuff a large drybag with a bunch of smaller drybags which makes packing and unpacking so easy.
With $1,500 you can get a couple of nice used boats - get a canoe and kayak.
@Peter-CA said:
A kayak for flat water lakes/ponds is a very different beast from one for class I or II water. This broad desire for uses will make finding a single boat that does both reasonably well hard to find.Made harder if you are looking for kayaks that can carry gear, as kayaks for whitewater are going to be small by design, and not good at carrying gear. Flat water kayaks are longer, and can more easily carry gear.
Canoe can work in both ponds/lakes and Class I/II rivers, but keep in mind that there are skills needed to taking canoes on moving water.
I’ve never been much of a believer in the idea that only whitewater kayaks are suitable for Class I and II whitewater, and this sticks with me because I remember being viciously flamed here by two “experts” for even suggesting that a 14-foot touring kayak can actually negotiate average Class II drops if stopping to play along the way is not part of the plan (they said doing so was totally out of the question, and if remember correctly, their go/no-go cutoff was a length of 8 feet, which was just ridiculous).
Here are some photos from a trip we did a few years ago, where many of the rapids are generally considered Class II, supposedly with a few Class III’s here and there, simply due to the wave size. My friend in the 13-foot Necky Manitou, a touring kayak that’s one step above a rec boat, never had a problem anywhere in three days of paddling. I wish I had more shots of some of the bigger rapids, but most such places weren’t conducive to photography (and yes, there’re some Class I spots shown here, but that’s part of the OP’s plan as well).
Not all Class IIs are created equal, and I can envision situations where such abrupt maneuvers are needed that such a boat would be at a greater disadvantage than was the case here (and this would be the case when this same river is lower, but in that case, with the flow being so much weaker, bumping a rock now and then instead of getting through every spot “cleanly” would hardly be a deal-breaker when it comes to boat choice, and in fact she’s run that river a few times at low water too). I wonder if the idea that you “must” have a whitewater kayak for this stuff is an offshoot of the modern play-boat mentality, where those who take that approach can no longer even imagine picking their way from top to bottom in the same way that someone in a general-purpose canoe would do (the same thing happened with backpacking equipment in the 70s and 80s, when almost every piece of gear was invariably judged according to its potential suitability for use high in the Rocky Mountains, rather than by practical considerations pertinent to other parts of the country).
Agree with that GBG. If the objective is simply to run rapids, you can definitely do that in a long boat. Look at the downriver racers - most of them are in long boats with relatively little rocker. They zip through class II/III rapids with no problem. You can definitely run class I/II in a longer touring boat, and even if you are an extremely light packer, you will need the bulkheads and space for camping gear. Here’s Ruth again - in a little of the fluffy stuff…
In my ordinary 14ft solo canoe, I go fishing on daytrips, go on camping trips down the river (have done up to 4 days but could go longer), and on mild whitewater daytrips with flotation bags. Granted, we don’t have much serious whitewater here in Texas. My girlfriend and I do the same activities in our tandem, although only I fish.
Most middle-of-the-road canoes with some rocker and some freeboard should be able to handle most class I-II whitewater if the paddlers have the basic moving water skills. You don’t need a specialized canoe to just get down a river with some class I-II whitewater. I would assume the situation is similar for kayaks.
@Guideboatguy said:
I’ve never been much of a believer in the idea that only whitewater kayaks are suitable for Class I and II whitewater, and this sticks with me because I remember being viciously flamed here by two “experts” for even suggesting that a 14-foot touring kayak can actually negotiate average Class II drops if stopping to play along the way is not part of the plan (they said doing so was totally out of the question, and if remember correctly, their go/no-go cutoff was a length of 8 feet, which was just ridiculous).
I think experience of the OP needs to be taken into account. All indications are they are just getting in to the sport. If they just said class I, I likely would not have mentioned what I did, but the class II does bring about a different perspective in my view. More experienced people can use flat water designed boats in class II. But someone who hasn’t built up the skills/education for class II is likely going to swim quite a few times with white water specific gear in class II, and much more with a non-white water boat.
I paddle an Eddyline Caribbean 14 SOT (Sit On Top) kayak. Most SOT kayaks are designed with fishermen in mind, but I chose this kayak because I have a bad knee and can’t get in & out of a sit inside kayak. I considered a canoe, but decided to get a kayak and I’m 100% happy with my choice. Finding a SOT with a design that works for touring was a challenge. Many SOTs used for fishing are large and heavy, not built for speed & distance travel. While my Caribbean will never be as fast as a longer regular touring kayak, it works perfect for what I do. I often paddle in mixed groups of kayaks, canoes, and sometimes inflatables. It can carry gear and water for weeklong trips easily. There are two hatches to access in the hull storage plus a tank well for a dry bag. I opted for a rudder on mine & I’m glad I did. I comes in handy in the wind. This kayak was ultimately designed as a fishing craft,and as such, it can be tricked out very nicely with all the fishing bells & whistles that you’d want. I have paddled it on small, medium, and large lakes, and moving rivers. I did take it on one weekend river trip that involved swift current and one class I+ rapid. It handled that fine, but I doubt that I would take it on that trip in the future. I’m much more comfortable in an inflatable for that trip. I would not take it on a trip with class II rapids.
If you are looking for a sweet fishing platform that can also handle multi-day touring, the Eddyline Caribbean would be a great choice. It might be a little over your budget, but not by much & you might be able to find a good end of season deal somewhere. Eddyline kayaks are made in Washington State, so you wouldn’t have to go far to get it.
Here are some pictures of it.
Canoes and kayaks each have their advantages and disadvantages. For fishing a canoe is fine, unless you find yourself in a pretty stiff wind. The canoe will catch the wind and make fishing difficult. A kayak has a lower profile and will handle the wind a bit better when fishing.
But for camping, a canoe wins hands down. You can fit so much more in it. For me that is bad and good, because I load the sucker to the gills. But it is nice having a proper chair to sit in, a tarp to sit under if the weather turns and there is nothing like cooking a steak, burger on a portable gas grill, fresh eggs for breakfast and having some cold beers to enjoy while in the wilderness. You can bring a full size cooler in a canoe, but not most kayaks. With kayaks you generally need to think like a backpacker.
I recall an Adirondack wilderness paddle trip where my then wife and I used our tandem Mad River Explorer. A group of kayakers arrived a the same time. We loaded the canoe and were on our way while the kayakers were still trying to figure out how to fit everything in their boats. Of course that can be avoided with pre planning, but a lot more planning is needed with a kayak.
If a portage is required, carrying a canoe is so much easier.
Judging from your post it seems that you will be solo much of the time. Perhaps a tandem canoe that handles well solo might be a good option for camping and fishing. A shorter Prospector from any mfr. paddles nicely solo and will run class 1 and even II waters well. The especially high profile may not be great for fishing in the wind though. Perhaps something like a Nova Craft Bob Special, or PAL would be the best of both worlds. Tandem boats that paddle easily solo, but have the capacity for plenty of gear and are stable enough for fishing. The Wenonah Solo Plus might also be an option.
I use a Mad River Explorer for my camping trips and it is a load monster that is great for camping. I’ve used it on a few Adirondack solo camping trips and it paddles fairly well solo. It is one of those boats that excels in few things (big loads and stable fishing platform come to mind) but does everything well enough. Class 1 waters are a piece of cake in an Explorer. The Wenonah Spirit II is also in that category. It is an all around boat that does everything reasonably well. These tandem boats are nice because they work solo, but on the occasion you may bring a companion, you don’t need a second boat.
Here is me and my ex wife in our Explorer loaded to the gills
4 nights, 5 days. On back deck is camp chair and sleeping pad in dry bag. I’ve been packing my boat in the same way for years. Each hatch always gets the same stuff.
I paddle an Eddyline Caribbean 14 SOT (Sit On Top) kayak. Most SOT kayaks are designed with fishermen in mind, but I chose this kayak because I have a bad knee and can’t get in & out of a sit inside kayak<<
7 years of Full Contact Martial Arts and 3 wars gave me bad knees too.
I use any number of kayaks/canoes for different reasons.
Next month I am doing a lake clean-up so will use my OT Pack-12 canoe to get into the reeds easier. I also occasionally use it for downriver trips as it is so easy to pack.
On the Salt River, I use my OK Scrambler SoT because it is slow but gets me through the rock-gardens easily and is easy to re-enter.
I will be doing the Colorado River from Hoover to Cottonwood, 5 days on water over Veterans Day, but will take my CD Whistler 145 because if I have to go upriver, this will do the job. also safer if weather arrives. On this trip, I am taking some people, always room for one more though I think 4-6 is the perfect group size, and recommend that we all take similar boats. Last year I and Shawna took 14’6" kayaks, Maria a 14’ kayak and Ken a 12’ kayak. Heather wants to take her 9’6" Swifty but I veto’d that! An ultra-light backpacker can easily camp out of a boat that short but will never be able to keep up with a group in longer boats. Found that out on one Colorado trip where we are spread all over a half dozen miles of river.
I think that the best kayak or canoe is the one that hauls your gear, gets you to the destination with the group and mostly, is one you enjoy paddling. That is why Shawna is planning on buying my Perception Carolina 145 simply because she enjoys paddling that boat so much she is willing to live with the problems.