not just fatalities
the main point of the article is that there are an increasing number of rescues which must be addressed by local authorities. This drains their resources (time, equipment and manpower) and deters them from their other responsibilities.
Dick’s position makes perfect sense
From a legal standpoint, selling kayaks with no instruction carries much less liability risk than undertaking to train people, even indirectly. And, Dicks has deep pockets.
Cost of rescue has an answer.
We do it here. The rescued person(s) are sometimes billed for the service, if it is determined that their actions were blatantly foolish.
agree and disagree
– Last Updated: Apr-30-08 1:17 PM EST –
I disagree about putting butts in kayaks, it's how you put them in kayaks. I do discredit the big box stores for carrying cheap rec - knockoff kayaks. Now, I'm not talking about rec kayaks in general; there are numerous well-designed rec kayaks that serve their purposes well. I started in a rec boat as I didn't have the budget or direction to get into sea, surf, race or WW kayaking when I began. And I think an elitist approach is almost as limiting to the growth of a sport as is a proliferation of cheap boats sold by people who don't really care how they're designed or used.
So why do people buy these boats? Because they're not well-informed, and the boats are readily available and sold cheapest at their big box store. Which opens up a larger dilemma. We (our society) want to shop price above all else, and ignore compromises in quality that vendors are forced in to if they want to supply, say, wal-mart. But then we piss and moan about quality, about jobs going overseas, about service. Well, you can't have it both ways. You can't walk into Dicks and get a no-name plastic boat that shrivels in sunlight and compare it to a rec boat made by someone like Old Town, Current Designs, or the many other reputable manufacturers.
So in the end I would like to hold responsible the retailers who carry these boats in the interest of undercutting the other guy who carries reputable brands, because there are other unseen consequences. Jobs are lost. Local tax base is diminished. And people walk away from kayaking with a negative experience. These retailers largely could care less what you do with the boat once you leave the store.
But in the end, who buys those boats? And how much research do they do in buying a kayak or canoe? We do. No one forces you to; they may facilitate a lack of thought but no one is holding a gun to your head.
I'll also add that I have been in the odd local shop that carries a reputable brand, only to be turned off by attitudes and an indifference to prospective customers. Local trade is becoming a bygone thing and while you can point at big boxes, some local stores need to wake up to the 21st century and recognize things do not sell on the notion of local vendors with indifferent staff.
In the end, I think rather than saying a certain style of boat is solely responsible, or even that a certain big box vendor is solely responsible, the desire for instant gratification plays an equally large role.
Gov’t priorities
We are rapidly becoming “The land of the Fee”. Seems everything now is a means for profit for someone. It’s totally out of hand with the gubmint. Do I need to be protected from myself? And for someone else’s financial gain? Guess so, if you listen to the Nanny State.
Now if you are really interested in saving lives, taking people’s money in exchange for a piece of paper or an ugly set of numbers isn’t going to solve anything. If you want to save lives, you have to raise the overall competence and knowledge of the boater. Problem is, there are a lot of folks who are either so arrogant that they think they know it all and can’t be taught anything, or those who are just too stupid to learn (Many times both).
The best solution I can think of is a voluntary educational program with a twist: If you decline the course, you can still do what you like, but if anything bad happens to you, you forfeit all rights to recover damages (The almighty American lawsuit), and have to pay for SAR or ambulance or whatever OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET. Hell, if you’re that good that you don’t need a class, you’ll never need SAR, right?
And not just a classroom thing, either. You’d have to demonstrate skills in the water in your own boat. If you’re a truly experienced paddler (Not what passes for one in the news reports), answer a few basic questions, jump right to the on-water, and get your certificate. One day if you already have the stuff. And I’d suggest automatically qualifying anyone with and ACA or BCU certification of a predetermined level, since their courses are better than anything the gubmint will offer (And as a note, I have no certifications, so I’d have to go, too).
But that will never fly, because the regulatory mind needs to have control over people, and also wants their money. It’s not really about saving anyone. If it were, there would be no talk of fees and registration – those are just taxes in disguise.
from a legal standpoint
what you say makes sense. However, there are is standard of law and larger standard of the public’s greater good. Good corporate citizenship is not yet a total oxymoron.
For example, large outfits like R.E.I. host several paddling demos AND classes each summer, and even small one-only stores like Sun n Snow in Ann Arbor MI and Riverside Kayak Connection in Wyandotte MI do both as well, also all thru the summer.
I doubt they’re doing it bareback insurance wise. I think they were motivated to do the right thing for their customers while putting themselves in a good position to make a sale of a boat and accessories, too.
Besides specific insurance, these retailers have certified instructors with training in CPR & other emergency medicine at all demos and classes. I have seen them work individually with each participant as far as fit in boat, PFD and paddle. If anyone brings their own PFDs they are checked. There are always at least two people on the water in kayaks ready and trained to rescue.
This is not meant to be a comprehensive list of all they do but it does give a general idea of ways that retailers can participate. I also want to add that as far as qualified people, some are store employees, some are not. So if Dick’s wanted to, or had to, rely on third party assistance there is a mechanism.
it’s the experienced kayakers fault!
yeah,they’re the problem,all that experience and they still slip on the banana peel.
The Biddeford kayakers
– Last Updated: Apr-30-08 2:52 PM EST –
were actually fairly experienced paddlers with ocean sea kayaks, pfds, protective clothing---dry suit for one and a shorty style wetsuit for the other. The big problem is they went for a paddle on a fairly windy day(25--30knots) early in the season with warm air and cold water in an area where the river and ocean tidal current was opposed to the wind, creating very large breaking waves--7' or so. They got separated and both went over. The paddler with a dry suit made it to an island where he spent the night(no cell phone or vhf radio) and paddled to the mainland the next day to sound the alarm about his buddy---the buddy's body was found about 5-6 miles away from where they were paddling---died from hypothermia. A shorty wetsuit really isn't enough protection from 45 degree water found off Maine during the spring.
Aside from the lack of a radio or phone and the shorty wetsuit, they were well equipped and had lots of paddling experience---and enough confidence to go out in serious conditions when the rest of us, including me, would have either stayed on shore or found a more sheltered place to paddle. Either that or they weren't aware of the conditions--hard to believe because that area has the reputation for being rough when the wind and tide are right. That said, there have been times when I have found myself in real edgy conditions---was able to get through it based on a combination of luck and skill. In any event this incident was not a case of some inexperienced paddlers going out in a rec kayak with no pfd etc. I don't like to say it but it could have been any of us. Some accidents are just going to happen now matter how well trained, competent and well equiped we are. Government regulations will not change that.
and BTW Celia, I think that you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that it might be a government money grab---two years ago Maine proposed a kayak licensing fee but no corresponding courses etc---just pay the state 10 dollars per boat for the privilege of paddling here.
What’s the definition of a “cheap ass
boat”? With most of the kayaking injury and death reports like the one mentioned in the story, its not cheap boats that’s the problem. Bit of snobbery I suspect.
WHAT?..
…hold the manufacturers responsible for the
mis-use of their product?
sue GM because someone buys a car, gets drunk, and has a wreck?
I’ll play
Part of it may be due to volume retailers failing to emphasize boater education and practice, but I think it’s a big problem that rental outfits don’t police the people they rent to. I’m sure it would decrease profits if rental operations charged customers extra if they were caught drinking or paddling drunk or for failing to wear their PFD, but it really would improve safety on the water.
Every single rental operation I’ve used over the years has just stuck you in a boat, told you to wear your PFD, and chucked you in the river. Some people don’t even pretend to wear their PFD at the put-in. Straight into the bottom of the boat it goes.
A lot of these people think that since they like to get drunk on the river so much, they’d save a few bucks if they just bought their own plastic tub from their local big box store. These people have no concept of what it takes to stay safe on the water.
I think rental operations need to have guides on the river making sure the people who use their services follow safety regulations. No beer floats (how many canoes have I seen capsize, sending dozens of empties floating downriver I can’t even count), wear your PFD’s, that sort of thing.
Big retailers AT LEAST need to provide information to buyers of boats about boater safety courses offered in the area. They need to provide boat buyers with information on local boating regulations. When you buy a bicycle, the manual is FULL of information about bicycling regulations…all mandated by the government. True, a lot of people will just toss that stuff in the trash, but people do read those things.
I do agree, however, that it would be a nightmare to mandate boater safety courses for everyone in piloting paddlecraft. Just as it’s equally nightmarish to make the same requirements of people on bicycles. Where do you draw the line at who’s required to take the course and who’s not? At least with motorized craft, there’s a minimum age just to operate them. Not so with bicycles and paddlecraft. I’ve seen 8yr olds more skilled on a bike or a boat than 90% or more of adults, but the vast majority of 8yr olds aren’t close to that level.
If the gubment is in for a money grab, then they need to enforce existing regulations with fines. Maybe a single officer on a stretch of water busy with rental operations could net more money for the state in a holiday weekend than licensing all the boats in the state.
Enforcement, HAH
after the gov’t makes their money having meetings about legislating laws that make them feel good, there’s no money for enforcement. Driver safety cell phone law comes to mind here in good ol’ Ct…
Most new kayaks and canoes come
with a packet of information, including basic safety information. The last bike I bought, for my grandson, he’s 5, had not one item of information about the importance of wearing a helmet.
Or…
all the boating laws we already have here, and only 35 or so DEP officers to enforce them statewide. Talk about not being able to enforce stuff.
Printed warnings
– Last Updated: May-03-08 6:25 AM EST –
I don't think the printed warnings about wearing a helmet on a bicycle or not using an electric skillsaw in the bathtub are reasonably expected to alter anyone’s behavior. I may be cynical, but I think the main motivation and effect of these warnings is for the lawyers to use them when defending a lawsuit by someone who has done something mind-bogglingly stupid. Once I saw a copy machine toner cartridge that had a printed warning not to eat the toner. It is probably not reasonable to expect the type of person who would eat toner to first read the warnings to see if it was a wise thing to do. Click and Clack from “Car Talk” suggested that someone write a book about people whose last words were “Hey guys, watch this.” The book would probably be longer than “War and Peace.”
surge in rescues…
– Last Updated: Apr-30-08 5:51 PM EST –
hogwash!
I would bet that the percentage of paddlers being rescued is roughly what it was thirty years ago compared to the numbers of other boaters.
And to say it is the entry level boat or boater that should bear the blame is crazy.
Most of the paddler deaths I read about are not newbies.
Taxing individual boaters or making some kind of paddler training mandatory is the dumbest idea I have heard on p-net yet. Paddling is like walking. I would dare to say it is safer. I mean, how many hikers got treated for hypothermia last year? How many drowned? ;)
bloody brilliant!
you are probably right!
The same number goes for driving your car or most other activities.
Let me tell you something.
When a shark attacks a person it’s all over the news while nobody mentions anymore that person that was killed in a car accident.
So what gives?
Car accidents are way too common to raise an eyebrow these days while somebody in a kayak is a much higher profile an perfect fodder for the media.
Legislating in theory sounds great but as somebody has mentioned earlier: you can’t prevent Darwinism.
what about bikes, toys or whatever
your argument does not fly if you compare kayaks to bicycles. Should Huffys be banned?
Hell no. Huffys are great for the person that wants them. They want to ride for less then $50.
Done. If it falls apart in a month and the person still wants to ride, most likely they will buy something better.
But most times the Huffy brakes and that’s the end of the story.
Most often that cheap kayak from Dick’s will see so little action that is negligible.
You can’t force everybody to buy quality.
People want quantity not quality.
In saying that my kayak is almost $5000 and my mountain bike probably more.
I don’t snob anybody that rides Huffy or paddles Tupperware. For their own good: it beats the couch.
How is your "personal paddling freedom"
any different than the person in
a cheap rec boat from Dick’s?
Sorry, but I completely disagree.
Elitism walks hand-in-hand with regulation.
Why not?
Why can’t we just let people drown off shore? Seriously, why not?