Composite good - but for a WW tripper?
Bowler1, I am assuming and expect that the Osprey is a better, nicer, stiffer and more responsive boat than my YS. But it’s not so much better than my boat that I would go out and spend all the extra money for the slight performance boost. Couple that with the added risk of possibly loosing an expensive boat like that in a river pin situation and having to hike out. I’m still wondering what would happen if that kind of boat pinned and folded - would you be able to stomp it out and paddle it the rest of the trip?
As for paddling your tripping boat instead of a dedicated WW boat, that can be a lot of fun in Class II with some IIIs mixed in. Once you get into solid III and up it might be a bit of a risk unless you are fully bagged and still, you won’t be able to play the river like in a WW boat. It has been very rewarding to translate my new-to-me WW skills to my tripping boats.
Tommy, I realize you can patch the Gel coat. You are lucky you have a white boat since the scratches won’t show and can be buffed out. Every time I try to do some gelcoat repairs to my Magic I end up wasting time and wishing I hadn’t even tried.
It’s funny, I’m pretty happy in the flats paddling either my Yellowstone or the Magic (or my Sea Kayak C1 Conversion) - at normal paddling effort I don’t see a big difference between them. It’s when I really push it that the Magic takes off. I think the ZRE paddle gives a much more quantifiable speed / effort difference. Almost bought a Z-Medium at Epic Sports in Bangor on the way back but am going to hold out for the Z-Whitewater.
True…
I don’t disagree with you on many of your points…but if I didn’t really think there was a noticeable difference in performance between the royalex YS and the Osprey then I probalby wouldn’t get the Opsrey at all because my Guide is not entirely different from the YS solo in terms of speed.
I just put the Osprey and royalex YS in different niches.
The Osprey is a foot longer and with narrower ends so it is a good deal more efficient.
I would agree that there is little difference in speed among boats if you don’t push them. I like to push them I guess. I hate to lilly-dip paddle as I just don’t find it fun.
As to composite as a river tripper…I woudl use this primarily for Class II and II+ as stated. in those situations I would hope that I would hope my skills would never get me into a pin situation.
If I were paddling anything bigger I would probably take the royalex Guide.
Since I already have a Magic and a Guide this boat bridges the gap to use assuming there are no serious rapids and pinning potential, etc.
Agreed on the ZRE paddles. You can really whip a boat to go fast with one.
Personally for a bent I really like the Whiskey Jack river. Not as powerful but has a really nice feel to it. Super sweet in the water.
matt
Noticble Difference
I’m sure I would be able to notice a difference in the boats (didn’t try the Osprey). I suspect the difference is less night-and-day and more subtle. I didn’t realize Osprey was a foot longer, looked about the same length on the truck.
http://picasaweb.google.com/jbudz1977/OspreyYellowstoneSolo#
If your trips don’t have difficult WW then a nice composite boat is worth it if you have the $$. You are used to nice boats and it doesn’t sound like $$ is a concern. For me when I wear out the YS I’m thinking Rockstar might be a good choice - a little extra carrying capacity would be nice.
Pinning situation - you mean like this?
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2902884520075003331PreBPC
Jeff was actually one of the guys who fished this boat off the rock on the New Boston section of the Farmington last fall. The owner stomped on it, and it popped back into shape, so I guess he could have continued paddling it if he had to.
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2137689590075003331vBGysY
We had 4 to 5 guys in the water that afternoon trying to get that boat off the rock - no way. This was a dam release weekend, so we just went back the next morning before the release started. At lower water levels, two guys were able to pop it right off.
I’ve never seen a composite boat pin like than, but I suspect it wouldn’t survive. I definitely don’t want to test it on my composite Spirit II. Even with an RX boat, if you don’t have the gear and the skills to set up some sort of pulling system, there’s a pretty good chance you are going to be walking out. This wasn’t a particularly difficult rapid – but it was a pretty good pin.
good point…
Yeah that’s not a hard rapid but a good pin! That is a telling picture.
Guess I will be careful when taking pictures from the boat. That is my downfall is that I like the snap pictures in rapids when maybe I should be paying better attention. This is a good example of a rapid that is not hard but I guess if you were snapping a picture and not paying attention you could end up like that boat!
As to cost as an issue…true. But for me I always buy boats used. The Osprey I am getting is a used one and already been scratched up a bit, etc. so it’s not a big deal using it in the rocks as long as I don’t end up with it pinned around a rock like in those pictures!
Matt
I’ve seen some pins
I had the displeasure of watching a beautiful Blue Wenonah tandem with no flotation wrap below the Zoar gap picnic area. Nothing left but splinters.
We peeled Carps Rx Explorer with no flotation off of a rock at New Boston above the race course. The royalex was torn and the vinyl/aluminum gunnels twisted. He was able to float it the few hundred feet to the takeout. I would not want to have had to take it much further than that. He still poles that boat with new gunnels and several glass patches.
The bottom line is that pins can be catastrophic for any canoe. The first line of defense for an out of control boat is flotation.
I was more concerned about impact fractures. I’ve seen some composite hulls crack pretty badly when taking a hit. I hit a few rocks pretty hard. Maybe more than a few.
A leaking crack on a wet day when I couldn’t do a duct tape patch would have slowed us down big time.
You certainly don’t have much worry about those in a newer royalex hull.
As it turned out I didn’t have to worry about those with my Osprey either. That Swift Expedition Kevlar layup is tough.
That’s the one
Yes Erik, That’s the boat I’m thinking about and has caused me to be fearful of pinning.
This is the video - too bad I stopped the camera as soon as the carnage began - it would have been cool to have had the implosion on video. I’m just glad he made it out of that OK and didn’t get trapped himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP2LmT6vg14
Talk about swift osprey, I have a photo
of a goshawk chasing a young osprey along the Kennebec in Maine. Our host told us that bald eagles also may prey on young osprey before the latter get competent enough to escape.