How many hands do you have?
I still don’t get it. So you say your baby has enough reflex that she won’t choke when bouncing up and down in the wave, assuming the PFD fits well enough to keep her from sinking to the bottom…
You’ve still got to get yourself back in the boat. How do you envision that being accomplished without letting go of the baby? How many hands do you have?
Maybe you should try it for real, with a sack of watermelon/oranges about the same size and weight as your baby. Dump yourself and the sack overboard, and see how fast you can get both back in the boat. Do that in “the bay”, which I think is still considered “beginner” water by that same paddling guide. Give you an idea what beginner means by the author and whether you’re ready to tackle Annacapa.
Although I’ve not kayaked Annacapa, I’ve been there. It’s one windy place. The time I went (July), the water was rougher than what I see in Monterey Bay! You definitely can’t count on NOT capsizing. It’s a REAL possibility.
sounds dicey to me
Alexandra:
I would have serious reservations about taking out an infant in a Pungo or any other kayak. I am the parent of 2 college age kids. When they were little, I wanted them to share in our outdoor interests. They were in bicycle baby seats when they could hold their heads up ok and were in our daysailer as infants. In the daysailer, we had them in an infant jacket which would turn them upright ant keep head out of water. There were a few important differences in a daysailer vs a kayak. One of the most important is that we had 2 adults present. One could tend to the baby while the other tended to the craft. With a baby in a single kayak, one has to be neglected when tending to the other. A daysailer is considerably more stable than a kayak, with design features to avoid a capsize.
So, for what it is worth, this parent enjoyed sharing cycling, sailing, hiking & skiing with kids as soon as they were able. I’d give a child a bit of time before slipping one into a kayak.
Perhaps you should contact the author
to see if kayaking in pungos with a baby on board would be something he had in mind when he listed the trip as a "beginner trip"?
I regularly paddle in many of the waters
described in this guidebook and would never take my beloved dog, with his PFD on, in my pungo, in any of our local coastal waters (I have other boats for paddling in the ocean). In fact, I wouldn't paddle my pungo in these waters at all. I might paddle my pungo is a very sheltered ocean bay, with a flotation bag, but I would have to feel comfortable that I could easily swim to shore in the event of a capsize-and that would never be here. Our max. summer water temp gets to be about 56-58 degrees.
I paddled Monday along the shore, and the water was calm and the skies were sunny. On our return paddle the wind had picked up, and as we paddled around Pleasure Point, we encountered swells in the 7-10ft range with some even larger, and with breaking waves out as far as 1/4 mile, or perhaps even a bit more, which necessitated paddling out through kelp beds in 20 mph winds. Try that in a pungo!(Not forecasted either I might add!)
Since you seem so eager to list your qualifications, let me share a few of mine with you. I have three children, all born without medication, and the last born at home with a midwife (Although what birth, and whether or not medications are used, has to do with any of this, is lost on me)In fact, I am a nurse midwife and I was up all last night with a family that unexpectedly gave birth to a child missing her left arm. Instead of sleeping today, I spent the afternoon in the ER where my 15 year old was brought in by ambulance after fainting (they now think due a low BP/pulse as the result of how athletic he is). This happened during lifeguard training and CPR instruction. My husband is an avid sailor and had a heart attack last year immediately after completing a sail (healthy and unexpected)
With all of your experiences have you ever had to provide aid or assist in a an actual rescue? With someone you love? I have, and I hope never to do it again. I don't mean to be rude, but alternative minded people who reify their own personal experiences, while overlooking commonsense, and sound judgement put people at risk for injury, and even worse. We are trying to help you avoid this. I am certain you love your child and have the best of intentions in wanting to share things with her, but to persist in looking for a way to include her in something you enjoy, but isn't safe for her, is selfish. It isn't good parenting. Your first responsibility is to keep her safe.
We all agree with Coffee:)
Anacapa and the Channel Islands
I am looking into doing the 12 mile crossing to the Island this summer. I have not been to this paticular Island but on the lee side of all the Islands off the California Coast there are some very calm sheltered bays and coves, but I suspect on Anacapa these are very small areas. Isn’t the island less than 2 miles long? The problem is that it is very hard to judge conditions 24 or 48 hours in advance of your trip. Winds and wave directions can change dramatically. In the summer it’s less of an issue but it can still happen. Last summer I made a crossing to an island in very small swells and gentle wind waves, the next morning contrary to the weather report there were 4’ steep waves making a following sea for the trip home. What was supposed to be a gentle surf landing ended up being a landing in huge breaking waves. If you want to paddle this Island I would get a baby sitter and book a tour with south wind kayaks. Ask them about paddling with an infant. … On the other hand watch the old doccumentary “Nanook of the North” he padddled with his whole family in his skin boat. Of course they were all dead within two years of the movie being filmed.
Due Caution Has Been Given
and folks will do what they want, as badly as they want, despite it all.
Couple of days ago, a father and his teen son dumped in a canoe on a pretty remote pond in our state. There was no wind, the air temps were close to 50, the water temps were... COLD. Anyway, they were fortunate to have someone walking a trail nearby. Person called for help and the two were rescued. They were, according to the report, pretty much at the end of the rope when help arrived. Both were hospitalized overnight for hypothermia. Of course, none of us here would ever dump in calm conditions. It's always the "novice" elsewhere.
A more able teen can't rescue himself. A 6 month baby with much less physical and cognitive ability...
I am just starting to do more kayaking with my 11 year 13 year old because physically they're able but, more importantly, they understand danger and are willing to learn safety procedures and skills.
sing
Monterey Bay ! - Holy Crap !..
You need your head examined. That is where we took our first kayak paddle, and if you are taking a six month baby out there you are nuts.
Or is it the fact that you want those spotting scopes from the aquarium on your beautiful little family?
Cheers,
JackL
Agree Sing
Seems all the advice given tells the poster an experienced view. If this posting is for real i think ya need a real wake up call in judgement, Alexandra. I have 2 kids of my owm and do some stupid stuff on occasion( but not with my kids). Hope we don't read about ya or see ya on the news.
As a family?
First of all, please forgive what I am about to say. It's for your own good, and your daughter's.
Your daughter is 6 months old. You are not taking her along as part of the family. She cannot participate as a family member. She will never remember these experiences.
[I took my kids to Disney world when they were very young. Spent several days there. Wanted to share the Disney experience as a family. A couple of years later, we returned. I suggested we skip the rides and attractions they went to the first time. They astonished me by saying they didn't remember ever coming here before! That was a reality check for me.]
You have to face up to your parental responsibilities. You are now parents, and are not free to do as you please whenever you want.
I understand that you think you are being responsible by taking all the precautions you listed, and I commend you for them. However, these are only excuses to rationalize the poor choice you are making, and the very real risk you are taking. I cannot believe that anyone teaching any of those classes would support your intentions.
I'm sure you have the best of intentions. I just don't think you have seriously looked at the consequences, or put this in proper perspective.
Please, please, do not take chances and end up as a statistic on this board.
Go ahead and go kayaking. Find a sitter for the baby. Enjoy yourselves without worrying about something going wrong. She will grow up soon enough, and there will be pleny of time to enjoy kayaking as a family.
Best of luck to you.
That all makes sense, BUT…
To call it a “family outing”??? She won’t remember any of it when she gets older. So “family time” won’t mean squat to her. The average teen memory span goes only as far back as possibly age 5. Anything before that is pretty much “for you pleasure” & feeling of “family”.
My suggestion is still GET A BABY SITTER!!!
Do you family time when “SHE” will remember & enjoy it as a person.
Been there done that, couldn’t afford the shirt…lol
Paddle easy,
Coffee
No Alexandra. No.
You have been given some great advice and feedback. Don’t do it. A six month old should not even be on a sailboat unless the boat is tied up.
You cannot think of every variable. No one can. You cannot guarantee that the infant’s head will stay above water if you go over. You cannot focus on re-entry (if it’s even possible while having a baby strapped on) or rescue of yourself or another boater if you are distracted by the all-important task of keeping your baby above water. This is a ridiculous idea. I admire your courage to ask such a wild question but now that you have heard from a bunch of your peers please stop justifying and rationalizing your idea and wait until your child is old enough to swim and rescue her/himself. Please.
I’ve made many posts
about taking my daughter out as an infant on walden pond in a pamlico (open cockpit boat).
Didn’t want to repeat them here.
OK i’ll discuss my methods since you
are really looking. I'll also give you my best recommendations. Worst case without my having a heart attack: If my daughter and I go over I would simply put her pfd clad body face up on top of my pfd clad chest and swim in, controlling her with one or both hands as needed. (Like you, I have been a working lifeguard.) I'd get the boat later.
That means that we are never further from shore than I can swim just using my legs.
The boat I paddle with my daughter is 29 inches wide. My solo boat is 21.5 inches wide. My skill level is never anywhere close to tested when she is in the boat. We are way way inside the envelope. I would counsel a simiilar path for you in that regard.
My pamlico has a huge open cockpit. My daughter has always just sat or slept on a seat or the floor. I suggest wearing clothing for shade. Get a hat for her face and shades for her eyes. forget the mini skirt when she is in the boat Entrapment in my boat is much less of an issue that with a pungo, much less with the skirt. n Forget the child carrier unless you want to paddle with her in a face out position on you chest. That way if you capsize you can both float face up and breath. Even that configuration I do not recommend. In the water gettin her out of a snuggli to get back into a boat even if you had the help of an expert kayaker. Grabbing a loop a the back of a pfd takes no time. I doubt you would be able to get a baby clad in a pfd into a carrier and a backpack style is right out!
We paddle on ponds with no motorboats or lakes where motorboats over 20 hp are banned. I know these lakes and any people on them at least by sight. In a semi sheltered harbor, wakes, a rogue wave, or moment of stupidity (I have had a few on the water and off), and deep trouble could result.
Yes, perhaps on a calm day in a very sheltered bay the risk is on the order of 1 incident per 1000 hours of having something really unusual happen. Even that rate is way too high for my taste, so I don't do that with my daughter yet. Have you considered Tides, currents, sudden windstorms???
My daughter and I will have practiced rescues on lakes till she is bored with them before we go out to do general trips on boston harbor in a tandem. (Pamlico is not not fit IMHOP) She will be able to swim well etc.
Like you my wife had our daughter with no drugs, though we did choose a mellow hospital setting with midwife. She was born into my arms, (in other word I caught her, tugging very gently coordinating wiht my wife, after the midwife cleared the head and mouth.) the amount of time she has been touched by people without love as the prime motivator for touch can be measured on less that 200 seconds. Like you, we did the infant CPR route before she was born.
The most important things about your child having a future in kayaking are, 1. that the child has a future, 2. that kayaking is really pleasant for her. My daughter's whim controls my agenda whe she is on the water with me. I try to always get off the water while she is still wanting just a little bit more. (Just a little bit). We have a great time with picnics, storytelling and reading, looking at fish and birds, and her dragging her hand into the water, like i used to do with my papa.
Seidmans "the essential sea kayaker" has a fun chapter on kayaking with kids, but not much info on infants.
Sorry that I called your serious request a troll. I salute your spirit of adventure, and I see that you want to raise a bright human, not a factory product. I have outlined my activities, contingency plans, and reasonings; yours may well differ. I counsel you to a very cautious appoach. I wish you all the best and
Good paddling to you!
I’m with the majority here.
I simply can’t imagine how to make it safe enough for an infant. An unexpected passing motorboat, whale, or log could dump you, and there’s no way a 6 month old baby dumped upside down in a boat can be counted on to survive, no matter what she’s wearing. Capsizes occur very very quickly sometimes–you can’t count on holding onto or being able to rescue the baby. During a capsize in a boat with open coamings it’s easy to get hit by the coaming, or to get trapped under the boat. A few tablespoons of water in her lungs and… can’t even think about it.
At 6 months, sitting up and dragging herself around on dry land is all the adventure she needs.
My daughter is a water maniac and a skilled natural athlete (much more than her dad). But I didn’t let her in a kayak with me until she was 5 years old, and then only after she had very amply demonstrated her ability to rise to the surface after being rudely, unexpectedly, and repeatedly thrown through the air. We use a double kayak with large cockpit openings and (gasp) sponsons to further stabilize the boat. I also won’t take her in water under 60 degrees.
This year she’s 6, and we might venture into 8 inch waves on the Charles River. I won’t take her on the ocean until she’s 8 or 9.
On the other hand… Tamsin Venn, the editor of Atlantic Coastal Kayaker, began taking her young children on the ocean, in the middle hatch of a large double, when they were about 2, I believe.
I’ve only heard one story of an adventuresome family who took a newborn baby everywhere. Can’t remember the details, but I think they canoed some cold Canadian waters with their 6 month old.
Sanjay
Are you “seriously” asking… OR…
Just waiting to hear someone say it is ok. From the osunds of it you are going to try and prove your point till it seems feasable & somebody agrees with you.
I still say GET A BABY SITTER!!! If you are that broke, I’ll pay a sitter 5 hours a week FOR YOU. This baby won’t know (and doesn’t know) what “family time” is till she is roughly 5 or 6 anyways. Also read my post from your latter post just above…
Paddle easy,
Coffee
What was MS Venn’s Skill level
Do you think she needed to ask about the waters or had paddled a hundred times in them. Was her boat infinitely more seaworthy than a pungo? How far within her skills envelope was she, or would she have been even, if the boat capsized. What other considerations made Ms venns choice safe (if indeed it was)?
These questions are of course not meant to attack you Sanjay, my esteemed friend and (kayaking wise) elder and teacher. They are meant to help other people examine Tasmin’s choice wiht great care, rather than draw inaccurate analogies.
Alexandra,
I have NEVER been given bad advice on this board!Several times, I have disagreed with what I had been told. and then, as my experience level increased, I realized they had been right all along! Please benefit from the experience of others - everyone is trying to help you! Blessings.
I got hammered on this board once, too.
So don’t feel bad, Alexandra. It’s kinda like an initiation rite. While there are obviously some posters here who don’t believe in making their point gently, they pretty much know what they’re talking about.
Welcome to the group!
Anacapa is not for infants
I know the author of “Adventure Kayaking from Big Sur to San Diego”, Rob Mohle, and have paddled with him on several occaions and also exchanged emails. His beginner trips are not designed for infants.
I have also paddled from the mainland to Anacapa Island and it can be a fairly easy intermediate level trip to a real nightmare. The week after I paddled there in a little over three hours, it took some friends over 6 1/2 hours to make the same trip because of winds.
I paddle the Santa Barbara Channel very frequently and I know that the winds can come up very suddenly and can cause some difficult wind waves to contend with. Also, the lee of Anacappa can change when we get Santa Anna Winds which blow from the Mainland out to sea. Closer in to shore, they can be 40 - 50 knot gusts–not good paddling weather.
There are also only 3 places where you can land on Anacapa.
The first two are for day use only and you can’t hike on the island from them. One is Cathedral Cove and if the tide is high, there may not be any beach at all. Another is Frenchy’s Cove. The concession boats going to Anacapa, do not usually stop at these places - usually they only go to Landing Cove.
The third place to land is Landing Cove. There is a 10 - 12 foot climb from the dock to a kayak. You cannot tie a kayak up there, but instead will have to hoist it via hand winch and a sling (you need to provide this) to the dock. Then you could climb the 154 steps so you could then hike to the campground (no trees and LOTS of wind). If you are lucky, the concession boat will land you in the water and you only have to get from the boat into your kayak without capsizing.
Do yourself a favor and wait until your infant is old enough to handle their own boat before you attempt this.
The waters around Anacapa are also not suitable for a rec boat in my opinion. If you don’t want to use a touring boat, use a SOT.
The more you say…
The more nervous I am about your baby. If I were to see you head out in the Pacific Ocean in a Pungo (NOT, I repeat, NOT an ocean kayak, especially for beginners) with an infant strapped in a seat, I’d probably call both the Coast Guard and Protective Services.
This is from a parent who did home birth and took my infant in a sailboat many times before the age of one… a 28 ft., 4 berth ocean sailor on relatively calm days… and had my son rock climbing before he was 6.
You are a beginner kayaker. No matter what your other experience, you don’t know enough about what you are doing to do this safely. If kayakers like Sing and Sanjay and Peter, who have a proven high level of skill, wouldn’t do it, and you won’t listen to them, why ask advice?
Sorry if this seems harsh, but you aren’t talking about endangering your own life. You are talking about endangering the life of your infant with needless risk. Don’t do it.