Chill people I’m going to have to deal with this same issue this year. Wife and I had a baby in October, spring is here and I’m itching to get us, all of us, out on the water - I’ll wait till the water’s a lot warmer to take the kid, though.
I think some of you are knee-jerk reacting without carefully reading the first post. The OP said they have mini skirts for the Pungo - essentially a sunshade/splashguard for your lap.
And they said “calm” ocean waters. Calm might mean glass flat, no current, in a sheltered bay, or it might mean something else.
The Kelty carrier mentioned straps the child to the front of the parent, it’s not a car seat type thing.
Now, rather than calling this person a troll, how about responding to a newbie asking a serious - if apparently preposterous to you more experienced folk - question.
It’s dangerous. You MIGHT tip over, your boat fill with water, the child get stuck in the front of the boat and drown.
It’s dangerous. The water in your area is full of currents, the open ocean has unpredictable waves that can flip you unexpectedly, the ocean in your area is COLD.
It’s dangerous. Putting the child in the carrier raises the boat’s center of gravity which makes it more likely to capsize. And, in the event of a capsize you’d have to lay on your back or drown the child.
It’s dangerous. Your profile lists you as a beginner. There are more skills and risks involved with kayaking than you may be aware of. Take a couple classes and build your skills before taking your baby. Would you let a teenager who just got their driver’s license or even just had their learner’s permit drive your baby around town?
Life is dangerous. Every time you carry your child in your car or walk down the street you are at risk.
The consensus here seems to be that the ocean in your area is too risky to take a baby out on. And that the method of carrying your child you proposed is too dangerous. And that, being a beginner, you don’t have the skills necessary to handle the situation if something does go wrong.
OTOH, a CALM (as in totally flat, no powerboats or ships making waves that might unexpectedly tip you), sheltered, warm, body of water; with a proper life-jacket on the child, tethered to you, might not be too bad.
You want to wait a few years… Several of us are parents here who have introduced kids to boating. I’m not an expert on the Big Sur area but visited last summer and in a drive up the coast we found two places where we dared to put in with waveskis and surf kayaks. Its just not a place for beginners or infants.
Wait until your little ones have had swimming lessons and they can play with you tipping the boat over and getting out and getting back in. Start out with canoes or SOTs. Calm bays are fine for kids in PFDs if they can swim a bit and are capable of getting themselves out of a swamped boat. Lots of companies have PFDs that work OK for children, they have crotch straps and large collars to keep the head up and grab rings on the collars to help rescue. I started paddling with my son when he was five on flat, warm water in canoes. I don’t think I would push that. Kids grow up pretty fast. My son who was five when we started paddling now rides waves as big as my house that scare the ----- out of me. Raising kids takes patience and judgement and they aren’t ready to be out on the water until they are much older than you are thinking about.
The basic problem is that if you capsize one of those kayaks in that water with a baby, there’s a very strong chance that the baby is going to drown. Most of us aren’t willing to bet our kids’ lives that we’re not going to capsize.
I’m probably less intense about risk than a lot of people here, but I would not take a child in a kayak on the ocean until the child was big enough to float in a PFD without assistance. I’m not sure just when that would be–maybe around 18 months–but I don’t think a six-month-old has enough body control to do it, especially in waves. I’d also make sure that the kid could easily get out of the kayak in a capsize, which I don’t think could be done from inside a rec boat.
I would also use a SOT rather than a sit-in rec boat. FWIW, the OK Cabo is a great kid truck. I’ve been taking my son out in it since he was three or four and my nephew since he was two. One nice thing about the tandem is that you can have two adults so that one can deal with the boat and one with the child.
Billy goats gruff… I don’t think anybody called her a troll. They simply implied that this is someone “trolling” the message board - purposely posting an absurd question to get everyone fired up.
While everything you say may sound reasonable (maybe if they weren’t talking about the ocean), I think the “baby wetsuit” comment put this original post into the realm of absurdity.
Diaper Dip I was a swimming instructor in college, but I never taught kids. One of my fellow instructors specialized in what was called the “diaper dip”
She told me that childern under one year can learn to swim, but if they are not taught then, they need to wait several years before thay can really learn to swim on their own. Don’t ask me why. I was never that much into child development.
Anywhere on the ocean off the NORCAL coast can change really quickly. Some places may seem safe at a certain time, but that same place can be incredibly rough at another time.
My favorite spot is Capitola Cove. Some days it seems like a lake, but I have seen overhead surf there on other days. You just never know.
Just to chime in: Assuming that this is a legit question, here are my thoughts:
Like others have mentioned, wait till the child can float unassisted in a PFD. Get a good PFD, try it out in a pool with one or two adults right there first - get the kid used to it and make sure it is working right. This is going to depend on size and weight - not age.
Stay off the ocean till the child is a good swimmer. I’ll put my 2-year old in a boat for the first time this summer, but only in an extremely quiet pond or lake.
Go with a tandem boat, no doubt about it. You need 2 adults right there. Worst case scenario with a single - what if one of the adults gets knocked on the head, has a heart attack, or what ever. You need two (strong swimmer) adults there.
I’d go with a sit on top or a canoe. Too much can go wrong with a decked boat. I’d avoid the Kelty carrier thing. Carve a nice little seat out of minicell & glue it in the boat. No straps or anything of the kind!
let me settle your nerves let me set the record straight. We bought the pungos to go go in lakes and bays - sheltered water - which is where we intend to stay - i was asking about , although i didn’t say it, the coves in lets say anacapa island -there are some beginner trips there. Let me reasure you that we have no intention of putting our daughter in danger. The thoughtful gentleman who wrote in explaining about how the miniskirt was for sun shade was right. The 3mm wet suit acts as a warming element over that is a polartec one piece suit should she get splashed from the paddle. Cotton as we all know, when wet gets cold. I am a sailer and a 10yr canoer, so I have some water experience. Sasha was born at home, in the water, and goes to mommy and me swimming and loves it. I know this turns some of you off - to not be in a hospital without the aid of drugs - but we feel we did the best thing we could for our daughter We thought of the kayaking as a way to go out in the water as a family, have a picnic and come home. We purchased a high quality life jacket for her and we made her a seat with a back and side arms that goes right between my legs. I have lifeguard experience and we both took a cpr class when i was pregnant to make sure that even on land she would be safe. I appreciate the advise about the open ocean and will heed that. We never intended to venture into the surf. When I said big sur , i meant more specificly Monterey bay. We have the book Adventure kayaking , Trips from Big Sur to San Diego and were only planning to do the trips marked beginner. Last but not least, we have taken two 4hr classes and have done capsizing assisted and solo. -just in case. So we have not been to the Anacapa Islands - we were intending to take a ferry there and then Kayak around the protected beginner area provided the weather was appropriate - we weren’t going to go into caves either. Has anyone been there? is it as calm, weather provided as certain books suggest?
She’ll probably survive But if you already have this all figured out, why did you ask, and why do you seem to want to ignore the almost unanimous response you’re getting?
How many hands do you have? I still don’t get it. So you say your baby has enough reflex that she won’t choke when bouncing up and down in the wave, assuming the PFD fits well enough to keep her from sinking to the bottom…
You’ve still got to get yourself back in the boat. How do you envision that being accomplished without letting go of the baby? How many hands do you have?
Maybe you should try it for real, with a sack of watermelon/oranges about the same size and weight as your baby. Dump yourself and the sack overboard, and see how fast you can get both back in the boat. Do that in “the bay”, which I think is still considered “beginner” water by that same paddling guide. Give you an idea what beginner means by the author and whether you’re ready to tackle Annacapa.
Although I’ve not kayaked Annacapa, I’ve been there. It’s one windy place. The time I went (July), the water was rougher than what I see in Monterey Bay! You definitely can’t count on NOT capsizing. It’s a REAL possibility.
I would have serious reservations about taking out an infant in a Pungo or any other kayak. I am the parent of 2 college age kids. When they were little, I wanted them to share in our outdoor interests. They were in bicycle baby seats when they could hold their heads up ok and were in our daysailer as infants. In the daysailer, we had them in an infant jacket which would turn them upright ant keep head out of water. There were a few important differences in a daysailer vs a kayak. One of the most important is that we had 2 adults present. One could tend to the baby while the other tended to the craft. With a baby in a single kayak, one has to be neglected when tending to the other. A daysailer is considerably more stable than a kayak, with design features to avoid a capsize.
So, for what it is worth, this parent enjoyed sharing cycling, sailing, hiking & skiing with kids as soon as they were able. I’d give a child a bit of time before slipping one into a kayak.
to see if kayaking in pungos with a baby on board would be something he had in mind when he listed the trip as a "beginner trip"?
I regularly paddle in many of the waters
described in this guidebook and would never take my beloved dog, with his PFD on, in my pungo, in any of our local coastal waters (I have other boats for paddling in the ocean). In fact, I wouldn't paddle my pungo in these waters at all. I might paddle my pungo is a very sheltered ocean bay, with a flotation bag, but I would have to feel comfortable that I could easily swim to shore in the event of a capsize-and that would never be here. Our max. summer water temp gets to be about 56-58 degrees.
I paddled Monday along the shore, and the water was calm and the skies were sunny. On our return paddle the wind had picked up, and as we paddled around Pleasure Point, we encountered swells in the 7-10ft range with some even larger, and with breaking waves out as far as 1/4 mile, or perhaps even a bit more, which necessitated paddling out through kelp beds in 20 mph winds. Try that in a pungo!(Not forecasted either I might add!)
Since you seem so eager to list your qualifications, let me share a few of mine with you. I have three children, all born without medication, and the last born at home with a midwife (Although what birth, and whether or not medications are used, has to do with any of this, is lost on me)In fact, I am a nurse midwife and I was up all last night with a family that unexpectedly gave birth to a child missing her left arm. Instead of sleeping today, I spent the afternoon in the ER where my 15 year old was brought in by ambulance after fainting (they now think due a low BP/pulse as the result of how athletic he is). This happened during lifeguard training and CPR instruction. My husband is an avid sailor and had a heart attack last year immediately after completing a sail (healthy and unexpected)
With all of your experiences have you ever had to provide aid or assist in a an actual rescue? With someone you love? I have, and I hope never to do it again. I don't mean to be rude, but alternative minded people who reify their own personal experiences, while overlooking commonsense, and sound judgement put people at risk for injury, and even worse. We are trying to help you avoid this. I am certain you love your child and have the best of intentions in wanting to share things with her, but to persist in looking for a way to include her in something you enjoy, but isn't safe for her, is selfish. It isn't good parenting. Your first responsibility is to keep her safe.
Anacapa and the Channel Islands I am looking into doing the 12 mile crossing to the Island this summer. I have not been to this paticular Island but on the lee side of all the Islands off the California Coast there are some very calm sheltered bays and coves, but I suspect on Anacapa these are very small areas. Isn’t the island less than 2 miles long? The problem is that it is very hard to judge conditions 24 or 48 hours in advance of your trip. Winds and wave directions can change dramatically. In the summer it’s less of an issue but it can still happen. Last summer I made a crossing to an island in very small swells and gentle wind waves, the next morning contrary to the weather report there were 4’ steep waves making a following sea for the trip home. What was supposed to be a gentle surf landing ended up being a landing in huge breaking waves. If you want to paddle this Island I would get a baby sitter and book a tour with south wind kayaks. Ask them about paddling with an infant. … On the other hand watch the old doccumentary “Nanook of the North” he padddled with his whole family in his skin boat. Of course they were all dead within two years of the movie being filmed.
and folks will do what they want, as badly as they want, despite it all.
Couple of days ago, a father and his teen son dumped in a canoe on a pretty remote pond in our state. There was no wind, the air temps were close to 50, the water temps were... COLD. Anyway, they were fortunate to have someone walking a trail nearby. Person called for help and the two were rescued. They were, according to the report, pretty much at the end of the rope when help arrived. Both were hospitalized overnight for hypothermia. Of course, none of us here would ever dump in calm conditions. It's always the "novice" elsewhere.
A more able teen can't rescue himself. A 6 month baby with much less physical and cognitive ability...
I am just starting to do more kayaking with my 11 year 13 year old because physically they're able but, more importantly, they understand danger and are willing to learn safety procedures and skills.
Monterey Bay ! - Holy Crap !.. You need your head examined. That is where we took our first kayak paddle, and if you are taking a six month baby out there you are nuts.
Or is it the fact that you want those spotting scopes from the aquarium on your beautiful little family?
Seems all the advice given tells the poster an experienced view. If this posting is for real i think ya need a real wake up call in judgement, Alexandra. I have 2 kids of my owm and do some stupid stuff on occasion( but not with my kids). Hope we don't read about ya or see ya on the news.
First of all, please forgive what I am about to say. It's for your own good, and your daughter's.
Your daughter is 6 months old. You are not taking her along as part of the family. She cannot participate as a family member. She will never remember these experiences.
[I took my kids to Disney world when they were very young. Spent several days there. Wanted to share the Disney experience as a family. A couple of years later, we returned. I suggested we skip the rides and attractions they went to the first time. They astonished me by saying they didn't remember ever coming here before! That was a reality check for me.]
You have to face up to your parental responsibilities. You are now parents, and are not free to do as you please whenever you want.
I understand that you think you are being responsible by taking all the precautions you listed, and I commend you for them. However, these are only excuses to rationalize the poor choice you are making, and the very real risk you are taking. I cannot believe that anyone teaching any of those classes would support your intentions.
I'm sure you have the best of intentions. I just don't think you have seriously looked at the consequences, or put this in proper perspective.
Please, please, do not take chances and end up as a statistic on this board.
Go ahead and go kayaking. Find a sitter for the baby. Enjoy yourselves without worrying about something going wrong. She will grow up soon enough, and there will be pleny of time to enjoy kayaking as a family.
That all makes sense, BUT… To call it a “family outing”??? She won’t remember any of it when she gets older. So “family time” won’t mean squat to her. The average teen memory span goes only as far back as possibly age 5. Anything before that is pretty much “for you pleasure” & feeling of “family”.
My suggestion is still GET A BABY SITTER!!!
Do you family time when “SHE” will remember & enjoy it as a person.
Been there done that, couldn’t afford the shirt…lol
No Alexandra. No. You have been given some great advice and feedback. Don’t do it. A six month old should not even be on a sailboat unless the boat is tied up.
You cannot think of every variable. No one can. You cannot guarantee that the infant’s head will stay above water if you go over. You cannot focus on re-entry (if it’s even possible while having a baby strapped on) or rescue of yourself or another boater if you are distracted by the all-important task of keeping your baby above water. This is a ridiculous idea. I admire your courage to ask such a wild question but now that you have heard from a bunch of your peers please stop justifying and rationalizing your idea and wait until your child is old enough to swim and rescue her/himself. Please.