Terms not familair to ww newbie

-- Last Updated: Apr-22-07 8:23 AM EST --

I see terms like SLICINESS & LOOSE quite often?

AND on DAGGER's website (like below), it is helpful but only if one knows what the terms are; I have learned what most are, and I am failrly certain I figured out - for the most part - what Bounce, Carving, Steep Creek, and Big Water is.
But I have no clue as to LOOSE, and foggy on Sliciness.

Dagger GT 8.1 Bgnnr 5 Intrmd 5 Adv 5
8' 2" Stablty 5 Rollg 4 Mnvr 4
76 Gal Hull Spd 5 Crvg 2 Bounce 1
140 - 230 Slice 2 Loose 3 RR 5
34 x 19 Rodeo/FreeStyle 2 StpCrk 2
Big W 5

I’ll give it a try
These are probably terms that you do not need to be concerned about at this point. But since you asked. If a boat is slicy that means the bow and/or stern are flat and low such that they can “slice” into the water when doing tricks (like a stern squirt). “Loose” refers to whether the boat feels like it is floating on the water and is easy to turn and manipulate. This is most relevant when you are surfing a wave. Some people, like me, like a slicy, loose boat because it means I am in control and not the boat. But YMMV.


– Last Updated: Apr-22-07 6:26 AM EST –

I always take to mean how the chines work to edge in the water and current. Sharper chines with acute transitions from hull bottom to sidewalls produce retentiveness on a wave or hole, where you want constantly to manage edge to edge transitions to carve and not get tripped up. My old Ultrafuge is an example of a boat that is very slicey on the ends and also very edgy with sharp chines in the middle. It's boat that will carve well on standing waves, do enders and stuff. It's also boat that will trip me up anytime I don't pay good attention.

My Necky Chronic, in contrast, is a shorter boat (about 6.5' vs 8' Ultrafuge) that has a slicey tail for stern skirts, a fuller rounder bow that doesn't really want slice and stay under water and will want "bounce" back up and out when I dive it into a hole. The bottom to side wall transition is more rounded and thus lacking a sharp chine. When on a standing wave, it sort of floats loosely and I don't have to pay much attention at all to currents catching the edge because there really isn't much of an edge to catch. The current passes easily right under the rounded chines and hull. I can easily spin 180s (I can't do full 360's) on small standing waves. On an ocean wave, the chronic can do multiple 360's with no worry of tripping an edge. In fact the trick is to try to "carve" and not spin out because of the boat's "looseness."


To Sing

– Last Updated: Apr-22-07 8:25 AM EST –

Thank You.

One last (?) Q.:

Given my earlier description,
and given that I have narrowed our choices to looking at/considering:
WaveSport Diesel, Dagger Mamba, Dagger (discontinued) GT, or the LiquidLogic Trigger/Lil Joe/Hoss series,
and given that we are going to have to travel some to find these models in a store to get a feel for sitting in them, features, etc. (because our area is carrying Touring type boats) - (let alone being able to rent one to try.) -

I have reconsidered that for myself only (not for my wife) that there may be a chance of 1 or 2 times per our short summer that I take it off of our short 19 mile coastline and want to "play" a little in the (small waves) surf.

Which of these (or all) would have the slight advantage? And I think I would want to lean towrds forgiveness over sensitive control . . .


For What Most Of What You’re Planning

– Last Updated: Apr-22-07 12:01 PM EST –

which is river running, any of your choices are fine provided you fit comfortably and snuggly in them. Higher volume, means less play (though the same river surfing potential). For the one or two times you surf in the ocean, you go with what you have.

If you were really more likely to ocean surf, then none of the above is a great choice because the very forgiveness you are looking for, less acute chines/edges, means you will slide out more on a waveface. Surfing a standing river wave is different from surfing a moving ocean wave. Once you're get on a standing river wave, it really doesn't matter much about the edges (given you're not talking about trying anything complicated) as long as you know how to weigh forard to go further down the wave, lean back to stall come back towards the lip, and use a stern rudder to control not falling of the sides. You'll be able to stay on that standing wave. On a moving ocean wave, you want to be able to keep up with and stay ahead of the moving pocket (where the breaking wave has the most power). Carving helps because the best place to be is somewhere in the middle of the wave face and ahead of the pocket. You need edges to carve or cut into and across the wave face to make a diagonal run in front of the pocket. With loose chines/edges, the tendency is to slide down the wave face and in the process lose some forward momentum in the diagonal run. This is sliding out and lost of forward momentum are enough that more often than not, white water boats will get quickly caught in the foam pile after a short duration on the green waveface. Just not enough speed. The best ww boats for ocean surfing tend to be longer and have edgier chines and slicier/ends to hold a line better. These very features will make the same boat more unforgiving on a river for someone not use to it. This also why you'll never see someone taking a surf specific boat on the river, except to surf some very BIG (head high) standing wave. Ain't many of those around. Surf boats are way too edgy and slicey on the stern. Using one to run a river would likely be a recipe for a beating.


That was a very good (and thorough) explanation.

Thank uou so very much.

on the other hand…i will say that
the gt surfs well long board like…no performance tricks/manuevers on a wave but just a fun fast surf down the wave…

i surfed one for two years and loved it…

the gt 8.1 also has a good amount of volume to help you rise up when plowing back out through the break…

it also has a good amount of rocker in the bow so pearling (catchign the nose of the boat in the water-then the bow goes straight downwards and you flip head over teakettle) does not happen that often…

i had a blast surfing mine…


I hate to disagree with Sing, but …
Look at this video by Corran Addison:


Seen The Video But
of spoon and knife but am not sure what the disagreement is… My chronic is a planing hull with soft chines. My Ultrafuge is a planing hull with sharp chines. They both plane but the chines react differently.