The day touring kayak: the best of both worlds?

I’m looking at the perimeter lines and thinking how hard it would be to get my hands on one, in an emergency. I can barely get hold of them on dry land.
I’m trying to envision capsizing and doing a wet exit, in rough water, and what I would grab for.
First off, it’s likely the boat is upside down, so the perimeter line would be underwater.
After I turned the boat over, I would grab the cockpit rim or the deck bag or the spare paddle. The things that would be easiest to grab. The last thing in the world I would try and grab is a line lying against the hull.
I guess I need to watch some videos of people that actually came out of their kayaks and see what they are grabbing hold of.

As I’ve said before, I think you would disagree with me if I said the sky was blue.
By best of both worlds, I think any reasonable person would realize that I don’t mean it would be the best choice for paddling around Cape Horn, nor would it be the best choice for fishing or bird watching. But it does do a lot of things well.
To use another cycling analogy, gravel bikes are the hot thing now. Would they be my first choice to do the White Rim? No. Would they be my first choice for the Sunday criterium? No. But they are popular because they perform reasonably well on pavement and they perform reasonably well on dirt.
The very fact that you have a lot of kayaks and, I’m assuming, have a lot of experience, is exactly why you don’t get it. A day tourer isn’t for you. But for those of us that don’t want to have a dozen kayaks, they just want one kayak that they can birdwatch with one day, then take down the Green River the following week, a day touring kayak is a good choice.

You are… You don’t have any boats with deck lines, despite a much more indulgent spree of buying new ones than most here could afford, unless I am missing a post. How you would have any experience trying to use them even to haul the boats around on dry land escapes me. As to cracks about Willowleaf having a lot of boats, repeat the second sentence above.

(Oops, subsequent edit. The Castine does have them. Deck lines are not rocket science to loosen up or replace.)

First you say deck lines are not a useful idea then you admit that you have zero idea of what happens in a capsize. And have never even seen a video of it. Of course the boat is upright before you try to get into it. If you discover a way to paddle upside down for extended time periods please send the video.

The rest of your ideas are as good as that one…

Unless you are not saying something here, you have yet to get the whatever to even capsize a boat so you can fall out of it.

Get a boat actually wet doing anything you feel free to criticize here. Then talk about it.


Most manufacturers & kayak owners who replace deck lines make them too tight. They need enough extra length for someone to easily grab onto without being very loose. Usually only 3 to 5 inches more than the measured distance depending on the number of deck fittings.


I have replaced or adjusted deck lines multiple times. I looked at the deck lines on the Castine - my error he does have one boat with them. Dealing with tightness is not something most people cannot solve.

If you don’t know the value of deck lines get some popcorn and go on YouTube or buy a good video series on kayaking and rescues. Get in some small chop see how holding a combing works out vs a deck line. See how a rescuer handles their hull with you on a combing.

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If you watch rescue videos or take lessons you’ll see perimeter lines serve many other purposes than just hanging on to you hull.


I watched about a dozen rescue videos. Not a single person used perimeter lines to hang on to their boat. A single person used it to hold their paddle, while they re-entered. No one else used them for any purpose whatsoever.
Some of you made a huge, huge, huge deal out of the fact that recreational kayaks don’t have perimeter lines. Sorry, I just don’t see that they are that big of a deal.

People use lines to take someone to shore front and rear, they are used to tow kayaks, lines are used to brace kayaks or stabilize two or even more kayaks together. Not being cute or nasty but you have a lot to learn. You think sea kayaks all have lines because it’s a 50 year fad? Pick better videos to watch. Get some lessons from a good certified instructor you’ll have a better idea of all the uses.


I don’t know what you watched. But it would take some serious negligence to see a lot of videos of sea kayak rescues and never see a perimeter line used.
But l feel you are fully capable of that.

Send a video of your having the substitute-term-here to capsize your boat. Something most of us here who have done training have done many, many times. I bet you don’t have it.

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Perhaps you’ve been watching the wrong rescue videos. Here’s an excellent one, demonstrated by ACA L5 certified instructors. Easy to see the rescuer grabbing a perimeter line during the rescue.

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I shouldn’t feed the trolls but here’s Gordon Brown:


Picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks!

Yea but they only had the 170 in stock…and boats are nearly impossible to find to demo these days…obv id get the 165 instead. But that’s not the point… the point is that longer boats aren’t always faster.

Learned a handy new word today: ultracrepidarian.


That’s two of us. Also I saw when I copied a word to paste I could just chose definition as an option instead of pasting it for a definition. I learned two things tonight. Old dog learns new trick, and they say it can’t be done.

I like it. A quite fancy way of saying full of hot air.

I agree troll. But I keep opening up his drivel to find that he has found new people who take his stuff seriously. Which is OK unless it is a newbie who just found this board and is looking for useful advice.

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“Hidden” is also useful. Works for me.

Pru, I don’t think I ever learned where you are located. If you can’t get a Stratos there is a used Venture Easky LV for sales in NH. Very similar specs and performance. I have had one for 11 years. Well oufitted low volume hard chined Greenland style 15’ by 22” that is only 46 pounds.



Thanks, but unfortunately I’m in the SE. Were I in the NE I probably would have purchased a used Cetus LV by now, or one of many used boats I’ve seen come up for sale there that would suit me. The only used boats here are either over priced rec kayaks, or over priced high volume sea kayaks. My ideal boat is the Isel, but a Cetus LV is a close second. The Stratos would placate me.

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